modern art is rubbish

Originally posted by catfoodtim
remember how shocked people were at the impressionists, van gogh, picasso. that's what i mean about modern art, it's there to challenge.

why has the pillowcase made your blood boil?

Because it contains no artistic merit. Merit is a key word. In order for something to be recognised and prized it needs intrinsic merit.

The modern art movement removes this (what they would call) 'elitist' concept - everything and anything is capable of being art. And I know it's a cliche, but if everything is art, nothing is art.

Tracey Emin's 'art' is a confidence trick perpetrated by manipulative gallery owners on a defenceless artistic community; defenceless because they have had all classical concepts of worth and merit stripped from them.

Originally posted by catfoodtim
i think it's a representation of her vulnerability so i dont think it matters whether it's fake or real. maybe a bit clichéd though?

I disagree! If the handwriting is fake, we are being manipulated into sentiment. If it is genuine, our sentiment adds meaning to the work.

Originally posted by catfoodtim
so would you say marcel duchamp is a confidence trickster too?

The idea of the ready-made was at least new then. And I don't think anyone can deny that French urinals are exquisitely finished.

Originally posted by catfoodtim
well said.


[b]The modern art movement removes this (what they would call) 'elitist' concept - everything and anything is capable of being art. And I know it's a cliche, but if everything is art, nothing is art.

raymond williams would drive you up the wall then.

i dont want to repeat the debate you lot had here before about what is art. mo ...[text shortened]... e entered the main stream.

so would you say marcel duchamp is a confidence trickster too?[/b]

More of a confidence dumpster...

The grand-daddy of them all.

Originally posted by catfoodtim
so why not look just at photographs?

would emin's pillowcase make you think "er..whatever"? or do you think she's trying to say something with her artwork?

Well I was giving visual art as an example - a photograph of a great painting does not convey everything about it.

As for Emin's pillowcase - like someone said, there is the piece itself and the underlying idea. I don't give much value at all to the underlying idea - the piece has to stand on it's own merits. What if you don't know the underlying idea?

So, I think it's shit. It just doesn't look like any time, effort or thought has gone into producing it.
Even if I take the underlying idea into account, it's still rubbish.

Originally posted by catfoodtim
i think we're being manipulated into sentiment anyway by the act of viewing the pillow alone. [..] are you saying without any authenticity the sentiment isn't valid?

I had no idea bad things had happened to this woman...The authenticity of the hand-writing affects the quality of the sentiment I experience on viewing the work. Of course the sentiment itself remains valid, but is likely to curdle if the handwriting is fake. I'd prefer to think it is fake, because that would allow me to view the pillow as a sign of the artist's cynical exploitation of her public as well as putting the authenticity of her supposed sufferings in question (to what extent are they fictional?)

Funnily enough, I'm finding Emin's work meaningful...There's an art to self-promotion & self-exploitation, don't you think?