Obama verses the Amish

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
As an example of what?

I was usnig it as an example of a possible objection to Obamacare based upon "relgious reasons". In fact, there could be potentially a million religious reasons why people oppose Obamacare, so my question is should the Amish be the only exception by being exempt or should the likes of Whodey be included?

Originally posted by whodey
I was using [abortion] as an example of a possible objection to Obamacare based upon "relgious reasons".

What provision in the recently passed health reform do you claim covers abortion?

Originally posted by FMF
What provision in the recently passed health reform do you claim covers abortion?

As the article I provided indicates, not directly but probably indirectly.

Of course, this thread in NOT about abortion, its about the FREEDOM to oppose Obamacare due to religious preferences. So should the Amish be allowed to oppose Obamacare?

Originally posted by whodey
this thread in NOT about abortion...

But, whodey, YOU brought it up as a 'problem' with "Obamacare" and therefore - you suggest - it may be a basis for faith-based 'conscientious objection' of some kind. What abortion-related provision of the health reform legislation are you referring to? What abortion-related provision are you claiming the Amish might object to?

Originally posted by whodey
The Amish don't run up $12 trillion debts and tax each other to death and they don't threaten each other if they are financially unable to help. No wonder they disdain the US federal government. Perhaps the Amish could shadow their "representative" and give them some pointers on how to help those in need?

I think we all have a genuine respect for the Amish in terms of their community and ability to care for their own independent of Big Brother. So what is their secret? Is it their devotion to God? Is the value they place on family and community? Is their devotion to God directly linked to their ability to be devoted to both family and community? It appears that even a power hungry statist like Senator Schumer appreciates the community that they have developed independent of the federal government, so he made a provision for them so they are not forced to be dragged down with the rest of society with Obamacare.

For me, the Amish are an example of what works. What works is government at the local level. It is government that can assess individual needs based upon those actual needs instead of answering to power hungry lobbyiest and from power hungry politicians through earmarks and simply taxing and throwing money around like it grows on trees. It is what the bloated oligarchy in Washington lacks. As we see with ballooning deficits, the federal model is inferior to the local model that we see in Amish country. So what happened to local government in the US? Did it become dysfunctional to the point of a lack of usefulenss, or did the federal government simply take over in a blind power grab? Could it be a combination of the two?

Originally posted by FMF
But, whodey, YOU brought it up as a 'problem' with "Obamacare" and therefore - you suggest - it may be a basis for faith-based 'conscientious objection' of some kind. What abortion-related provision of the health reform legislation are you referring to? What abortion-related provision are you claiming the Amish might object to?

The Amish did not object to Obamacare on the basis of providing abortions, rather, they simply disdain governemnt programs as the article stated.

Originally posted by whodey
The Amish did not object to Obamacare on the basis of providing abortions, rather, they simply disdain governemnt programs as the article stated.

OK. But you said that the abortion issue was just "one of a myriad of reasons" why someone religious might oppose "Obamacare". What provision or provisions are you referring to? Look, whodey, YOU raised it. Why not just say specifically what provisions you had in mind? And what else about the health care reform constitutes this "myriad of reasons" you mentioned?

Originally posted by whodey
I think we all have a genuine respect for the Amish in terms of their community and ability to care for their own independent of Big Brother. So what is their secret? Is it their devotion to God? Is the value they place on family and community? Is their devotion to God directly linked to their ability to be devoted to both family and community? It appear ...[text shortened]... ederal government simply take over in a blind power grab? Could it be a combination of the two?

In what sense does the Amish way of running a society "work"?

Originally posted by FMF
OK. But you said that the abortion issue was just "one of a myriad of reasons" why someone religious might oppose "Obamacare". What provision or provisions are you referring to? Look, whodey, YOU raised it. Why not just say specifically what provisions you had in mind? And what else about the health care reform constitutes this "myriad of reasons" you mentioned?

The article I provided showed that even though there are no direct provisions it appears that abortions may be funded indirectly. In short, it is the best of both worlds for a PR nightmare.

Originally posted by whodey
The Amish don't run up $12 trillion debts and tax each other to death and they don't threaten each other if they are financially unable to help. No wonder they disdain the US federal government. Perhaps the Amish could shadow their "representative" and give them some pointers on how to help those in need?

Easy on the Glenn Beck rhetoric eh? Nevertheless, the principle is the same, only the Amish is a microcosmic example.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
In what sense does the Amish way of running a society "work"?

As the article states, they do not rely on government programs. In fact, they disdain them. Instead of Big Brother they rely on each other in the community to help one another. This means helping each other with possible medical bills or any other need that they may have.

Originally posted by whodey
The article I provided showed that even though there are no direct provisions it appears that abortions may be funded indirectly.

So you're saying that someone might be able to object to a law - for religious reasons - because they have internalized some propaganda that misrepresents what that law actually is?

Why should I believe some stinking blog and why do you?

Originally posted by whodey
As the article states, they do not rely on government programs. In fact, they disdain them. Instead of Big Brother they rely on each other in the community to help one another. This means helping each other with possible medical bills or any other need that they may have.

What do you think the US would look like if everyone lived like an Amish?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
What do you think the US would look like if everyone lived like an Amish?

Oh, I don't know, maybe a society that lives within its means.