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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 17 Apr '12 23:55
    Are speculators really the problem or are they convenient scapegoats?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/4-gas-no-justification-high-prices-says-fmr-160209651.html

    How much does supply and demand affect the price of oil and refined fuel these days and what is the cause of it?
  2. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Apr '12 01:40
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Are speculators really the problem or are they convenient scapegoats?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/4-gas-no-justification-high-prices-says-fmr-160209651.html

    How much does supply and demand affect the price of oil and refined fuel these days and what is the cause of it?
    They are really the problem. Thanks for asking.
  3. 18 Apr '12 03:44
    Originally posted by rwingett
    They are really the problem. Thanks for asking.
    Are you sure it is not because the Dollar and other currencies are losing value?

    If speculators really are the problem, can the Obama administration do anything meaningful about it?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/president-obama-targets-oil-speculators-another-election-ploy-173329898.html

    Is this change you can believe in?
  4. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Apr '12 10:37
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Are you sure it is not because the Dollar and other currencies are losing value?

    If speculators really are the problem, can the Obama administration do anything meaningful about it?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/president-obama-targets-oil-speculators-another-election-ploy-173329898.html

    Is this change you can believe in?
    Obama can't do anything as long as the filibuster exists.
  5. 18 Apr '12 13:44
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Obama can't do anything as long as the filibuster exists.
    The Justice Department is not affected by the filibuster.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    18 Apr '12 13:58
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Obama can't do anything as long as the filibuster exists.
    They used a parliamentary maneuver to avoid the filibuster on the healthcare bill. If they really really want something done, there are ways to do it.

    Besides, it would be politically very difficult for the GOP to filibuster a measure that would be aimed at lowering the price of gas (which is going to be a huge GOP talking point in the election cycle).

    In any case, if Obama is really so tied down by the fact that the Dems don't have 60 seats in the Senate as to be totally ineffective, then maybe it's time to get someone else in there to give it a shot. It's not like the Dems have any possibility at all of getting a filibuster-proof 60 seats in the Senate in this year's election.
  7. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    18 Apr '12 13:59
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Obama can't do anything as long as the filibuster exists.
    All he has to do is wait for them to go to lunch and make a "recess" appointment of a new oil speculation czar.
  8. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Apr '12 23:48
    Originally posted by sh76
    They used a parliamentary maneuver to avoid the filibuster on the healthcare bill. If they really really want something done, there are ways to do it.

    Besides, it would be politically very difficult for the GOP to filibuster a measure that would be aimed at lowering the price of gas (which is going to be a huge GOP talking point in the election cycle).

    In ...[text shortened]... ibility at all of getting a filibuster-proof 60 seats in the Senate in this year's election.
    It's not like the Congress ever has a chance of working properly again, which is one of the causes propelling us toward a crisis of historical proportions.
  9. 19 Apr '12 00:32
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Are speculators really the problem or are they convenient scapegoats?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/4-gas-no-justification-high-prices-says-fmr-160209651.html

    How much does supply and demand affect the price of oil and refined fuel these days and what is the cause of it?
    Speculators do what the name implies, they speculate. They basically bet on the future price of commodities. Their bets are on the market, and the reaction to market forces. Actually, if anything their bets, their wins and losses tend to flatten out the actual peaks and valleys of the market. Saying or implying the futures traders control or force the market one way or the other is like saying betters at the Kentucky derby determine the winner, and how fast the race will be run.

    What is regulated, and enforced in futures trading is insider information, which collusion would harm some speculators in favor of others. Even insider trading would have no effect on overall prices, only who made money on the futures trades.

    If anyone has another explanation, I eagerly await hearing it. Too many otherwise intelligent people hear speculators maligned and go along without even thinking about how they could be involved in forcing gasoline prices higher.
  10. 19 Apr '12 00:35
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    All he has to do is wait for them to go to lunch and make a "recess" appointment of a new oil speculation czar.
    Do you seriously think that would have any impact on gas prices, except perhaps to raise them? Generally more regulation does raise costs and prices, and even price controls have devastating effects as we can remember who lived through price controls in the Nixon era.
  11. 19 Apr '12 00:40
    Originally posted by sh76
    They used a parliamentary maneuver to avoid the filibuster on the healthcare bill. If they really really want something done, there are ways to do it.

    Besides, it would be politically very difficult for the GOP to filibuster a measure that would be aimed at lowering the price of gas (which is going to be a huge GOP talking point in the election cycle).

    In ...[text shortened]... ibility at all of getting a filibuster-proof 60 seats in the Senate in this year's election.
    I like your thought that if he can't do anything without a majority in both houses it is an admission of incompetence.

    Few Presidents have enjoyed such majorities, and somehow they managed to do necessary things.
  12. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 Apr '12 01:25
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I like your thought that if he can't do anything without a majority in both houses it is an admission of incompetence.

    Few Presidents have enjoyed such majorities, and somehow they managed to do necessary things.
    Reagan managed to go over Tip O'Neil's head and got Dems to support his agenda.

    There's no inherent reason the Obama administration could not have peeled off an Olympia Snowe or Susan Collins or Scott Brown. Is the political climate different? Perhaps, but there's no guarantee that another administration could not in the future cajole members of the other party to work with them.
  13. 19 Apr '12 01:28 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Speculators do what the name implies, they speculate. They basically bet on the future price of commodities. Their bets are on the market, and the reaction to market forces. Actually, if anything their bets, their wins and losses tend to flatten out the actual peaks and valleys of the market. Saying or implying the futures traders control or force the ...[text shortened]... along without even thinking about how they could be involved in forcing gasoline prices higher.
    I think what is being implied is that speculators are crossing the line into manipulation and are not merely speculators anymore.

    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=8131
  14. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    19 Apr '12 01:58
    Originally posted by sh76
    Reagan managed to go over Tip O'Neil's head and got Dems to support his agenda.

    There's no inherent reason the Obama administration could not have peeled off an Olympia Snowe or Susan Collins or Scott Brown. Is the political climate different? Perhaps, but there's no guarantee that another administration could not in the future cajole members of the other party to work with them.
    Obstructionism should not be rewarded.
  15. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    19 Apr '12 02:25
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Obstructionism should not be rewarded.
    One man's obstructionism is another man's fight for what is right.