Populism

@diver removed their quoted post

Indeed.
It’s also the weakness of democracy.

@AverageJoe1 said
Passports exist for a reason. They wake up today and find out what the requirements are, depending on where they live. They fulfill the requirements. Yes, if they are part of the Mahi Tribe in N Africa, that is their home of choice or circumstance. They start on dayone to move their lives forward within the law. Hopefully they can save a few florins for a bus to South A ...[text shortened]... t 3 of their lives.
What else is possibly the solution? Carry a sign in a circle at Parliament?

Yes. I know what a passport is.

Say you flee to Portugal. And they don’t want you, so decide to deport you to the US.
And say you’ve “lost” your passport and tell everyone your name is Juan Osama bin-Lacky.

Who is going to issue you a passport?
Portugal doesn’t want you.
America doesn’t want anymore bin-Lackys…

So?

@shavixmir said
Indeed.
It’s also the weakness of democracy.

What weakness of democracy do you mean?

@shavixmir said
Yes. I know what a passport is.

Say you flee to Portugal. And they don’t want you, so decide to deport you to the US.
And say you’ve “lost” your passport and tell everyone your name is Juan Osama bin-Lacky.

Who is going to issue you a passport?
Portugal doesn’t want you.
America doesn’t want anymore bin-Lackys…

So?

You begin by saying you flee to Portugal I assume you mean any person in the world that does not have a passport, flees to Portugal? Then the logical answer to your question is that when he is turned away from Portugal, and tries to enter United States he will not be able to receive entry without a passport. I have no idea where he would go then to get a passport, except back to the country where he is recognized as a citizen, and then to his embassy there to get a passport.
If there is no program anywhere that would give a passport to this particular person, for whatever reason, then he may never get a passport. I do not know the law beyond all of these facts to answer your question.

@AverageJoe1 said
You begin by saying you flee to Portugal I assume you mean any person in the world that does not have a passport, flees to Portugal? Then the logical answer to your question is that when he is turned away from Portugal, and tries to enter United States he will not be able to receive entry without a passport. I have no idea where he would go then to get a passport, except ...[text shortened]... e may never get a passport. I do not know the law beyond all of these facts to answer your question.

No. What I’m saying is that they no longer have a passport. What do you do?

@divegeester said
What weakness of democracy do you mean?

That it oft times serves the whims of the stupid and or powerful.

@shavixmir said
That it oft times serves the whims of the stupid and or powerful.

Oh well that happens all the time and in non democratic societies also.

@divegeester said
An adjective used by the liberal left to deride their opponents.

What is populism? Surely it is democracy in a word.

What do you think?

I think Bernie Sanders, a notable US leftist Senator, was also called a populist candidate when he ran against Hillary Clinton in 2016, which invalidates your thesis.

Also Andrés Manuel López Obrador, a leftist, and previous president of Mexico, was referred to as a populist.

Generally I see a "populist" as being a politician who wants to effect an expeditious revolution within existing institutions, which has an extremely poor track record of successes. Only gradual processes that take many years can right wrongs within the bounds of a nation's constitution, by clearing the courts of political hacks through attrition, carefully reorganizing and reforming existing institutions, crafting sound policies informed by experts in their fields, passing new laws while abolishing old ones, and so on.

The only other way is a sudden extra-constitutional revolution led by the right people, as happened in, say, Eastern Europe in 1989 - 1990. They are always bottom-up, inclusive revolutions, which is to say they don't demonize large segments of the population based on ethnicity, sex, religious beliefs, etc.

This is why the MAGA movement is such a waste of time and resources, and is absolutely doomed as sure as 1+1=2. Cruelty and further enrichment of the billionaire class are its only points.

@shavixmir said
No. What I’m saying is that they no longer have a passport. What do you do?

Sorry, I thought you were saying that ‘a person’ is lying to authorities that they’d lost something that they’d never had.
Because, if he is a legit person (your bad name of him, suggests that he has bad history) then all you do is go to his embassy, which I casually mentioned above, and get a new passport

@Soothfast said
I think Bernie Sanders, a notable US leftist Senator, was also called a populist candidate when he ran against Hillary Clinton in 2016, which invalidates your thesis.

Also Andrés Manuel López Obrador, a leftist, and previous president of Mexico, was referred to as a populist.

Generally I see a "populist" as being a politician who wants to effect an expeditious revolut ...[text shortened]... omed as sure as 1+1=2. Cruelty and further enrichment of the billionaire class are its only points.

Acknowledged on Bernie.

I disagree on what populism is though; I think it is simply popular ideologies, strategies, policies etc.

I do think Shav is correct about many issue being complex, however I don’t agree that these all require complex solutions, some do of course. I feel the the rise of populism is driven at least in part by the general populous’ dissatisfaction with incumbents to make practical progress on high value issues, and in many cases display the apparent lack of political will to do so.

On a personal level I am a doer, I’ve been a doer all my life and I’m results focused; my job was to make the complex simple. I am utterly sick and fed up with contemporary politicians citing waffly BS reasons for not getting stuff done, including blaming “complexity”. Who was it who said something about the skill in life is to create simplicity and not complexity. Furthermore if the established political infrastructure is so complex that it is inhibiting change or progress then it needs to be got rid of.

@AverageJoe1 said
Sorry, I thought you were saying that ‘a person’ is lying to authorities that they’d lost something that they’d never had.
Because, if he is a legit person (your bad name of him, suggests that he has bad history) then all you do is go to his embassy, which I casually mentioned above, and get a new passport

Uh, no.
Because you don’t know which country they are from and without proof no embassy is going to issue said passport.

@divegeester said
Furthermore if the established political infrastructure is so complex that it is inhibiting change or progress then it needs to be got rid of.

As messy as they are, history teaches that revolutions are necessary to the advancement of human freedom and dignity. They often go badly, and allow opportunists to come in and parasitize off the Zeitgeist in order to enrich themselves, punish "undesirables," or impose their beliefs on society at large. Usually all three. On the balance, though, every decent society in existence got its start at some point with a revolution.

@Soothfast said
As messy as they are, history teaches that revolutions are necessary to the advancement of human freedom and dignity. They often go badly, and allow opportunists to come in and parasitize off the Zeitgeist in order to enrich themselves, punish "undesirables," or impose their beliefs on society at large. Usually all three. On the balance, though, every decent society in existence got its start at some point with a revolution.

I’m not a revolutionist, I’m a revisionist. When I say “got rid of” I would cite for example the EU Parliament but not the principles of European trade deals and other collaborations, I would cite the ECHR but not without a UK CHR, I would cite maritime law, the ICC and their pointless politicised recent warrant on Netty.

@divegeester said
Acknowledged on Bernie.

I disagree on what populism is though; I think it is simply popular ideologies, strategies, policies etc.

I do think Shav is correct about many issue being complex, however I don’t agree that these all require complex solutions, some do of course. I feel the the rise of populism is driven at least in part by the general populous’ dissatisfa ...[text shortened]... nfrastructure is so complex that it is inhibiting change or progress then it needs to be got rid of.

A simple solution within an international poltical matrix is pointless. As I’ve pointed out, multiple times in this thread.

Every choice leads to many things changing.
So, basically, you have to turn a lot of switches at once to get the results you want, without destabalising everything else.

And it is possible. The Dutch built the Delta works. And are busy with the next installment, and even then there are many lessons learnt that now need to be addressed.

@divegeester said
I’m not a revolutionist, I’m a revisionist. When I say “got rid of” I would cite for example the EU Parliament but not the principles of European trade deals and other collaborations, I would cite the ECHR but not without a UK CHR, I would cite maritime law, the ICC and their pointless politicised recent warrant on Netty.

But who is going to do the "revising"?

Yes, a nation could sort itself out if the populace voted in a smart party with a firm backbone, but both the UK and US are saddled with major parties that are mere string marionettes doing the bidding of oligarchs and their corporate interests.