MOSCOW - Dozens of world leaders gathered in Red Square to mark the 60th anniversary of victory in World War II, but the occasion was soured by tensions in Russia's ties with neighbours.
From Reuters today: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10124685
" President Vladimir Putin and US President George W. Bush were among those who watched the parade by Soviet veterans and Russian military amid huge security for fear of attacks by Chechen rebels.
Putin said the world owed "great thanks" to the 26.6 million Soviet citizens killed in the war. While paying tribute to US, British and French allies, he said the cruellest fighting had taken place on Soviet soil. "
Despite the grumblings and accusations which flowed surrounding this event I found it fantastic that in my life time I saw Russia, USA and German on a rostrum in Red Square Moscow..
As the son of a war child growing up in the 60's we were told that Russia was the real enemy. "Paton had the right idea...onwards to Moscow...they all said.
The US Pres has even been folk dancing in former soviet Georgia.
I'm gob smacked and so happy to see such meetings and cordiality how about you?
Yes, I see your point, it's good to see. I don’t think we'll see another war like WW2 again - it's too costly and we’re not so keen on signing up anymore. The big boys realise they can kick the sh*t out of little countries and coerce them to their way of thinking...get rich off them and never be threatened. Thus we bring democracy to the world and eventually the world will be one big happy place with hopefully a min wage and decent quality of life for all. Until then I see a lot more suffering.
It is ok as long as you now go about learning the actual history.
The Soviet's did lose the most to the war. The Soviet's did sign a non-aggression pact with Hitler that divied up eastern europe as slave states.
The US (in a most ignoble act) did fully ratify the Yalta agreement which was NOTHING MORE THAN A REAFFIRMATION OF STALINS AGREEMENT WITH HITLER.
The only moral voice was that of Churchill. He argued and fought strenuously and with all of his energy for the freedom of all people enslaved by the Yalta agreement. Poor man. It was his and Britains worst moment to have FDR (who was riddled with sickness and a dying man) sign off on Hitlers pact with Stalin. It ain't politically correct to say any of this though, so you better study it yourself. If our wonderful modern world has blessed you with the ability to doubt and read and think.
And the British people thought so much of Churchill that they voted him into oblivion at first chance. And It came to pass that the world wept.
Originally posted by StarValleyWya rec.. I totally agree with your every word... and I'm glad you said it... Though I can't see why you'd think it politically incorrect .
It is ok as long as you now go about learning the actual history.
The Soviet's did lose the most to the war. The Soviet's did sign a non-aggression pact with Hitler that divied up eastern europe as slave states.
The US (in a mo ...[text shortened]... oblivion at first chance. And It came to pass that the world wept.
My polish mates hate russia but love the fact that so many leaders had the guts to go to the celebration and air their opinions face to face.
The BS thats flowing there at the moment is shocking but it's clearing the air in public and in a way we have never seen before.
Their presence is heartening in itself.
See the news about the grenade chucked at Bush today...missed by 30m and didn't go off. (does it count as an attempt)
Originally posted by Tirau DanDan,
a rec.. I totally agree with your every word... and I'm glad you said it... Though I can't see why you'd think it politically incorrect .
My polish mates hate russia but love the fact that so many leaders had the guts to go to the ...[text shortened]... ..missed by 30m and didn't go off. (does it count as an attempt)
You bring joy to my heart. Probably not to the same measure as you feel, because I am second hand joe. You know?
But I am glad that there is a dialogue. The thing I dread is the US media starting the hammer of "Bush offends all of Europe" that will start up tomorrow. Never mind. I just checked the www and it has started already.
I think it is politically incorrect because here... the dems will try to make it out that Bush "did something wrong" and they will have ten examples.
I don't know. That is the way we must live if we want to support you guys.
And I do support you.
Regards, and thanks for your kind recognition of my very humble post.
May you have independence! And freedom always. (svw smiles from his position ... wearing a crown. ,grin, giggle, gag!)
Mike
Originally posted by StarValleyWyThat is what militarily strong powers do - invade and dominate weaker countries.
The Soviet's did lose the most to the war. The Soviet's did sign a non-aggression pact with Hitler that divied up eastern europe as slave states.
The US (in a most ignoble act) did fully ratify the Yalta agreement which was NOTHING MORE THAN A REAFFIRMATION OF STALINS AGREEMENT WITH HITLER.
The Soviets were invaded twice in twenty years. In the second invasion from the west in twenty five years, they lost twenty seven million people in their battle for national survival. Their reaction was to create puppet states in the Nazi liberated countries, to split Germany, and to create a fortified Eastern Europe to prevent further invasion. Thousands of Soviet troops were stationed in these countries to put down any uprising.
The US lost several thousand civilians in the 2001 attack. Their reaction was to arm the warlords and overthrow the Afghanistan goverment, and then to invade and occupy Iraq. Bush claimed this was to protect the citizens of his country - just as Stalin claimed occupied Europe was to protect Soviet citizens.
Originally posted by steerpikeSo. You support the slave states that they created? Why? Why did they feel the need to enslave all of those good people?
That is what militarily strong powers do - invade and dominate weaker countries.
The Soviets were invaded twice in twenty years. In the second invasion from the west in twenty five years, they lost twenty seven million people in their battle for national survival. Their reaction was to create puppet states in the Nazi liberated countries, to split Germa ...[text shortened]... citizens of his country - just as Stalin claimed occupied Europe was to protect Soviet citizens.
I will await your answer. It will tell us a lot as to what you will do should you become a dictator like Stalin.
Why? Why did the USSR feel completely compelled to enslave all of those nations?
Or do you deny it? Like Putin?
Originally posted by StarValleyWyI don't support superpowers invading and occuping other nations.
So. You support the slave states that they created? Why? Why did they feel the need to enslave all of those good people?
I will await your answer. It will tell us a lot as to what you will do should you become a dictator like Stalin.
Why? Why did the USSR feel completely compelled to enslave all of those nations?
Or do you deny it? Like Putin?
Originally posted by steerpikeOk.
I don't support superpowers invading and occuping other nations.
I don't support any government at all. So?
If you don't support "super powers" then why support Saddam? He killed 37,000 plus per year for all the time he held the nation of Iraq as slaves. Isn't that a "super power"? Your silly naive ass might have a change of heart if you were in his prison, instead of a good womans prison.
If you think not...then you better ask the people who were the slaves. They are not complaining about Saddams removal. Only You and your ilk are complaining. Why? Why do you want the terror king, slash dictator back? Hell. I don't know. Why? Answer why you want him back. If you dare. I'll not hold my breath.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyIsn't that a bit like a Soviet leader answering a complaint by a Pole about the Red Army occupation by saying:
Ok.
I don't support any government at all. So?
If you don't support "super powers" then why support Saddam? He killed 37,000 plus per year for all the time he held the nation of Iraq as slaves. Isn't that a "super power"? Your silly naive ass might have a change of heart if you were in his prison, instead of a good womans prison.
If you ...[text shortened]... ? Hell. I don't know. Why? Answer why you want him back. If you dare. I'll not hold my breath.
"Why are you complaining about Hitlers removal? Only You and your ilk are complaining. Why? Why do you want the Nazis back?"
Originally posted by steerpikeYes. It is exactly the same. Thankfully there were no such supplications.
Isn't that a bit like a Soviet leader answering a complaint by a Pole about the Red Army occupation by saying:
"Why are you complaining about Hitlers removal? Only You and your ilk are complaining. Why? Why do you want the Nazis back?"
The analogy ends at the point where slaves are made.
Which nation made slaves and which is trying to free them?
Originally posted by StarValleyWyWhen Bush expressed his disgust of Russias enslavement of Eastern Europe didn't Putin say to Bush something along the lines of "Don't speak about democracy while you only govern because of a court decision."
So. You support the slave states that they created? Why? Why did they feel the need to enslave all of those good people?
I will await your answer. It will tell us a lot as to what you will do should you become a dictator like Stalin.
Why? Why did the USSR feel completely compelled to enslave all of those nations?
Or do you deny it? Like Putin?
I laughed hard.. because they still managed to walk away smiling.
If Bush would chat a while long maybe Putin will help with Korea.
Thanks for the last post Mike 🙂
And the British people thought so much of Churchill that they voted him into oblivion at first chance. And It came to pass that the world wept.[/b]Churchill was a great war leader and was voted the Greatest ever Briton.
He was defeated because the electorate had long memories, the economic picture of Britain pre-war was of an empire crumbling under a worldwide recession.
Labour created the welfare state, government support from cradle to the grave. This was only possible because we were free but Churchill did not poesess the power or policies to protect the British people socially. He was percieved as war leader and not a peace leader.