Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperI agree with you. But neither is it weird to oppose someone using the government to impose their secular views. You're not allowed to pray in school anymore, the Ten Commandments aren't allowed to be displayed, Christmas trees are banned from public spaces, and an unelected court overturned the wills of majorities in several states regarding abortion. And that was 40 years ago.
It's not weird to oppose religious views being forced upon others through the government.
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Originally posted by sasquatch672Is the 1st amendment establishment clause a religious view or a secular view?
I agree with you. But neither is it weird to oppose someone using the government to impose their secular views. You're not allowed to pray in school anymore, the Ten Commandments aren't allowed to be displayed, Christmas trees are banned from public spaces, and an unelected court overturned the wills of majorities in several states regarding abortion. And that was 40 years ago.
Edit: same question about Article VI, paragraph 3, the no religious test clause.
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Originally posted by sasquatch672First of all no matter where you go in the US in December (in the words of John Stewart) "It looks like Santa's balls exploded."
I agree with you. But neither is it weird to oppose someone using the government to impose their secular views. You're not allowed to pray in school anymore, the Ten Commandments aren't allowed to be displayed, Christmas trees are banned from public spaces, and an unelected court overturned the wills of majorities in several states regarding abortion. And that was 40 years ago.
Second of all students are NOT banned from praying. Some schools may disallow praying as part of a school sponsored event, and they should. Parents are free to teach their kids whatever form of mysticism they want, and students are free to practice it. But stopping public schools from sponsoring your religion is NOT "forcing secularism"
You're complaining about schools not being allowed to post the ten commandments in view? How about we have public schools teach Islam? Since failing to allow them to do is "forcing secularism" you'd support that, right?
This is typical backward neocon thinking. Gays don't want to ban straight marriage, but if gays want to also marry they're "forcing their views on you." If you ban public schools using public money to push your religion it's "forcing secularism."
Originally posted by JS357The first amendment establishes neither view. It simply says that the government can't establish a government similar to Europe where people were forced into specific churches.
Is the 1st amendment establishment clause a religious view or a secular view?
Edit: same question about Article VI, paragraph 3, the no religious test clause.
Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperOk - good points; but the fact is that we were founded on Judeo-Christian, Greco-Roman principles. Americans were guaranteed freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. I had a girl in my seventh grade class that was a Jehovah's Witness. She didn't stand during the PoA. That's ok; but in my opinion it would have been wrong to stop the Pledge altogether.
First of all no matter where you go in the US in December (in the words of John Stewart) "It looks like Santa's balls exploded."
Second of all students are NOT banned from praying. Some schools may disallow praying as part of a school sponsored event, and they should. Parents are free to teach their kids whatever form of mysticism they w ...[text shortened]... ools using public money to push your religion it's "forcing secularism."
Better story. I attended Rutgers University for a year after I got out of the Marine Corps. It was a heavily minority campus. Rutgers, as I'm sure you're aware, is also a state university. The flagpole was on the roof of the Student Center. The flag of Puerto Rico flew on campus, that gay pride flag, flags I couldn't recognize (and whatever you think of my political views, I've been a place or two, and exposed to a lot of different countries and cultures). The flag that did not fly - not one day in the year I was there - was the American flag. Also, no Christmas trees; we celebrated Kwanzaa on campus.
My discussion with the campus provost (a very large black man) about this did not go well. About the American flag: "Alot of people round here see that flag as a symbol of oppression", or words very similar to that effect. About Kwanzaa, but no Christmas: "This is our city, our campus, you have the rest of the world", or something very similar.
I graduated, but not from there.