Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    09 Mar '16 04:13
    For those who say that we have a natural right to health care, where does that end, if at all?

    Do people have the right to any medical procedure? Does it mean that people have the right to equal quality of health care etc?

    It seems to me that both governmental programs and private insurance deny people some forms of health care. So are both violating our natural rights by doing so?
  2. Standard membervivify
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    09 Mar '16 06:361 edit
    Healthcare is a "right" in the same way that children have a right to go to school and get educated, without worry of being able to afford it. In a modern society, the people have a right to demand certain things from a government that expects them to pay taxes. Healthcare is one them.
  3. SubscriberWajoma
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    09 Mar '16 07:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    For those who say that we have a natural right to health care, where does that end, if at all?

    Do people have the right to any medical procedure? Does it mean that people have the right to equal quality of health care etc?

    It seems to me that both governmental programs and private insurance deny people some forms of health care. So are both violating our natural rights by doing so?
    In the same way that you have a right to go on a 'die while you wait' waiting list, because the guts of the state healthcare system has been sucked out of it by those who are reckless and careless with their health.
  4. Germany
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    09 Mar '16 07:28
    Originally posted by whodey
    For those who say that we have a natural right to health care, where does that end, if at all?
    It ends where the treatment becomes too expensive for the expected benefit of the treatment or where the treatment has no expected benefit (e.g. homeopathy). For these sort of treatments people should seek private medical care.
  5. Joined
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    09 Mar '16 12:09
    Originally posted by vivify
    Healthcare is a "right" in the same way that children have a right to go to school and get educated, without worry of being able to afford it. In a modern society, the people have a right to demand certain things from a government that expects them to pay taxes. Healthcare is one them.
    What does a right to education mean?

    In the states, inner city schools are more like prisons for kids than a place for an education. I heard of one family who sold their home to move into a cramped apartment just so their children could live in an area with a better public school system.

    Also, if you take the scores of children in math and science in the public school system in the US, they rank about 48th in the world.

    So I ask you, what does the "right to education" really mean considering these facts?
  6. Joined
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    09 Mar '16 12:11
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    It ends where the treatment becomes too expensive for the expected benefit of the treatment or where the treatment has no expected benefit (e.g. homeopathy). For these sort of treatments people should seek private medical care.
    Right, now we are getting somewhere.

    What you mean is, government wants the right to ration health care and take that job away from private industry.

    In fact, the government does not promise us anything when it comes to our health care. All they want is to place our faith in them to always do the right thing.
  7. Joined
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    09 Mar '16 12:11
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    In the same way that you have a right to go on a 'die while you wait' waiting list, because the guts of the state healthcare system has been sucked out of it by those who are reckless and careless with their health.
    Now, now, we know that the government is run by angels and deserve our utmost faith in giving them complete power over our person.
  8. Cape Town
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    09 Mar '16 12:26
    Originally posted by whodey
    So I ask you, what does the "right to education" really mean considering these facts?
    It means what it says. You have a right to an eduction. The fact that your government does not let you have what you have a right to is just a reflection of how bad your government is. It doesn't change what your rights are.
    The results of your governments failure in this regard are quite obvious on this forum.
  9. Joined
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    09 Mar '16 12:34
    Originally posted by whodey
    Now, now, and deserve our utmost faith in giving them complete power over our person.
    "we know that the government is run by angels"
    your alternative are corporation CEO's?

    "deserve our utmost faith"
    the fact that checks are in place to limit the power of government proves this is nonsense.

    "giving them complete power over our person"
    exagerate more. this is not enough.
  10. Joined
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    09 Mar '16 13:51
    Originally posted by Zahlanzi
    "we know that the government is run by angels"
    your alternative are corporation CEO's?

    "deserve our utmost faith"
    the fact that checks are in place to limit the power of government proves this is nonsense.

    "giving them complete power over our person"
    exagerate more. this is not enough.
    At this point we need checks from the continual power grab of government far more then we need to put further regulations on businesses and the free market. You have the right to not be discriminated against when you purchase your healthcare.
  11. Standard membersh76
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    09 Mar '16 14:02
    Originally posted by vivify
    Healthcare is a "right" in the same way that children have a right to go to school and get educated, without worry of being able to afford it. In a modern society, the people have a right to demand certain things from a government that expects them to pay taxes. Healthcare is one them.
    That presumes that all people pay taxes. Many don't (especially federal taxes).

    People don't have an inherent right to demand anything from anyone except to be left alone. Sure, they have the right to vote for politicians who will enact various programs. But that's the political process, not a right.
  12. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    09 Mar '16 14:111 edit
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It means what it says. You have a right to an eduction. The fact that your government does not let you have what you have a right to is just a reflection of how bad your government is. It doesn't change what your rights are.
    The results of your governments failure in this regard are quite obvious on this forum.
    In the US, education is free to everyone through high school and college is close to free as well as long as you're willing to go to a school whose tuition is no higher than Pell grants and maybe take out a few bucks in loans. Yes, you can't go to the University of Florida without money. There's no God-given right to go to a party school or a top-notch private school.

    That there are problems with the primary education system in the US is probably more a function of government incompetence than failure of government to pony up enough money. The nationwide average spent on a public school kid's education is over $10,600.

    http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2012/06/21/155515613/how-much-does-the-government-spend-to-send-a-kid-to-school

    Chew on this for a second:

    In New York state, the average cost per student in public schools is over $18,000. I send my kids to private school where the cost is less than half of that. In Utah, the cost per student of a public school education is about $6,000 and yet its outcomes are comparable tot hose of NY.

    It's a management issue and bureaucracies are poor managers, by and large. That's why I'm in favor of tuition vouchers (aside from that fact that they would be a tremendous boon for me, of course).
  13. Garner, NC
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    09 Mar '16 14:22
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    It means what it says. You have a right to an eduction. The fact that your government does not let you have what you have a right to is just a reflection of how bad your government is. It doesn't change what your rights are.
    The results of your governments failure in this regard are quite obvious on this forum.
    Because most states have declared education a "right", the effectiveness is diminished. There are many students in schools who have no desire to learn and cause countless disruptions to other students who might otherwise learn something. But the schools cannot expel such students because somewhere, someone has declared they have a "right" to education.

    And it is odd that we decide we have a "right" to education up through 12th grade, but not a "right" to go to college nor graduate school.

    I predict that not long after undergraduate college is declared a "right", college education will reduce in quality to the point that you'll need a graduate degree to be employable in most professions.
  14. Germany
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    09 Mar '16 14:37
    Originally posted by whodey
    Right, now we are getting somewhere.

    What you mean is, government wants the right to ration health care and take that job away from private industry.

    In fact, the government does not promise us anything when it comes to our health care. All they want is to place our faith in them to always do the right thing.
    It's not about what the "government" wants but what the people want, and most people seem to prefer rationing based on medical need to rationing based on a lottery. Aside from this, a single payer system is more efficient and thus allows for more health care to be provided using the same amount of resources, your aimless wailing notwithstanding.
  15. Standard membervivify
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    09 Mar '16 15:08
    Originally posted by whodey
    What does a right to education mean?

    In the states, inner city schools are more like prisons for kids than a place for an education. I heard of one family who sold their home to move into a cramped apartment just so their children could live in an area with a better public school system.

    Also, if you take the scores of children in math and science in t ...[text shortened]... world.

    So I ask you, what does the "right to education" really mean considering these facts?
    It means that the U.S. is doing a horrible job providing children with the education they have a right to.
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