19 Jul 20
Is it perfectly ok with you right wingers Trump uses federal troops with no ID's arresting peaceful demonstrators and whisking them away in unmarked vehicles?
So now the Gestapo is to be used to quell peaceful protests anywhere in the US?
What about that first amendment thingy?
Means nothing now in the era of Trump?
@sonhouse peaceful protests
I see.
How Bad Are the Portland Riots? On-the-Ground Footage Provides an Insight
Saturday night marked the 50th straight day that "protests" have taken place in Portland, Oregon. These so-called protests were labeled a riot late Saturday night as people – which looks to be a combination of Antifa and Black Lives Matter – demolished federal buildings and set fire to the Portland Police Association Headquarters building.
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"peaceful" - oh, the lies!!If I was Trump, I'd let them burn the city down.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2020/07/19/watch-on-the-ground-footage-shows-just-how-bad-the-riots-in-portland-really-are-n2572726
@earl-of-trumps saidWhat you're leaving out, of course, is that the extrajudicial kidnappings, brutality, and assorted excesses of anonymous federal thugs in battle fatigues this past week are what appear to have stoked the violence you're talking about. Or have you forgotten my own thread on that very subject from a few days ago?
@sonhouse peaceful protests
I see.
How Bad Are the Portland Riots? On-the-Ground Footage Provides an Insight
[i]Saturday night marked the 50th straight day that "protests" have taken place in Portland, Oregon. These so-called protests were labeled a riot late Saturday night as people – which looks to be a combination of Antifa and Black Lives M ...[text shortened]... /2020/07/19/watch-on-the-ground-footage-shows-just-how-bad-the-riots-in-portland-really-are-n2572726
Before Trump interfered it was being noted that the protests in Portland appeared to be petering out on their own.
19 Jul 20
@soothfast saidWhich came first, sooth, the chicken or the egg?
What you're leaving out, of course, is that the extrajudicial kidnappings, brutality, and assorted excesses of anonymous federal thugs in battle fatigues this past week are what appear to have stoked the violence you're talking about. Or have you forgotten my own thread on that very subject from a few days ago?
Before Trump interfered it was being noted that the protests in Portland appeared to be petering out on their own.
Take whichever side you wish. It is clear in the article that the "protests" have
been going on for 50 days. If you think that burning down the building where
the police union meets is a proper response to federal thugs, go right ahead.
Two wrongs never make a right. But saying that the feds entered the fray with
no just cause is simply amusing.
19 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidDoes the fact that the local authorities want them removed mean nothing to right wingers? I thought you were supposed to be big fans of decentralized government and "States Rights"?
Which came first, sooth, the chicken or the egg?
Take whichever side you wish. It is clear in the article that the "protests" have
been going on for 50 days. If you think that burning down the building where
the police union meets is a proper response to federal thugs, go right ahead.
Two wrongs never make a right. But saying that the feds entered the fray with
no just cause is simply amusing.
@soothfast saidWell, it's science, so right wingers won't pay any attention to it but:
What you're leaving out, of course, is that the extrajudicial kidnappings, brutality, and assorted excesses of anonymous federal thugs in battle fatigues this past week are what appear to have stoked the violence you're talking about. Or have you forgotten my own thread on that very subject from a few days ago?
Before Trump interfered it was being noted that the protests in Portland appeared to be petering out on their own.
"Researchers have spent 50 years studying the way crowds of protesters and crowds of police behave — and what happens when the two interact. One thing they will tell you is that when the police respond by escalating force — wearing riot gear from the start, or using tear gas on protesters — it doesn’t work. In fact, disproportionate police force is one of the things that can make a peaceful protest not so peaceful. But if we know that (and have known that for decades), why are police still doing it?
“There’s this failed mindset of ‘if we show force, immediately we will deter criminal activity or unruly activity’ and show me where that has worked,” said Scott Thomson, the former chief of police in Camden, New Jersey.
“That’s the primal response,” he said. “The adrenaline starts to pump, the temperature in the room is rising, and you want to go one step higher. But what we need to know as professionals is that there are times, if we go one step higher, we are forcing them to go one step higher.”
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/de-escalation-keeps-protesters-and-police-safer-heres-why-departments-respond-with-force-anyway/
Leftists see the solution to violent protests as addressing the causes of the protests. Right wingers see the problem only as a failure to apply sufficient boots to sufficient necks, so the solution is always even more force. Maybe with as much elimination of rights as possible ("marital law" ) and deployment of the military to US cities. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/03/opinion/tom-cotton-protests-military.html
19 Jul 20
@no1marauder saidBelieve it or not, No1, the federal government has the right to protect federal
Does the fact that the local authorities want them removed mean nothing to right wingers? I thought you were supposed to be big fans of decentralized government and "States Rights"?
property. Ya, really. Not everyone thinks like the mayor of Portland.
And states rights is a good thing. But this is not state property or city property
that we are talking about, so states rights need not apply here.
19 Jul 20
@no1marauder
I'm told that if police didn't stop the bank robbers, there'd be no need for the
bank robbers to escalate the violence!
Imagine that
@earl-of-trumps saidYou obviously haven't followed the situation in any detail; the feds are roaming far and wide over the city making arrests (often without ID'ing themselves). If they had confined themselves to federal property, it would be a different story.
Believe it or not, No1, the federal government has the right to protect federal
property. Ya, really. Not everyone thinks like the mayor of Portland.
And states rights is a good thing. But this is not state property or city property
that we are talking about, so states rights need not apply here.
19 Jul 20
@earl-of-trumps saidLike I said, it's science which right wingers refuse to believe in.
@no1marauder
I'm told that if police didn't stop the bank robbers, there'd be no need for the
bank robbers to escalate the violence!
Imagine that
19 Jul 20
@philokalia saidThe tactics being used are those of a fascist police state, not that of a democratic republic based on the Natural Rights of the People. Seizing people without giving your authority to do so and/or the reasons for the arrest are unconstitutional violations of the 5th Amendment (and the Natural Rights that existed before it).
It's normal to use plain clothes officers and special tactics to sweep up elusive suspects in difficult operations.
Tactics have been adjusted for the situation in Portland.
19 Jul 20
@no1marauder saidI'm surprised an atheist appeals to natural rights. How?
The tactics being used are those of a fascist police state, not that of a democratic republic based on the Natural Rights of the People. Seizing people without giving your authority to do so and/or the reasons for the arrest are unconstitutional violations of the 5th Amendment (and the Natural Rights that existed before it).
19 Jul 20
@philokalia saidI'm a Non-Dualist which would make me more of a Non-theist than an atheist.
I'm surprised an atheist appeals to natural rights. How?
It's outside the scope of the thread, but there are scientific reasons to believe we are hardwired to accept certain moral principles which comprise the Natural Law. A God isn't required though you can believe he put them in us if you want.
19 Jul 20
@no1marauder saidI don't know the law and I don't know exactly what their jurisdiction is. It may
You obviously haven't followed the situation in any detail; the feds are roaming far and wide over the city making arrests (often without ID'ing themselves). If they had confined themselves to federal property, it would be a different story.
include more than just federal property. You tell me. Maybe the feds have ID'd
people via facial profiling and they are fugitives. I don't know.
I will, however, be interested to see what the suit filed by the ACLU brings.