@athousandyoung saidWhen you see the halflings, you know they’re halflings. No matter their colour.
Because these non-Tolkein writers chose to write the plot in such a way as to skim over that part of the setting. In the Hobbit a half-man half-orc was instantly identifiable as such by his phenotype.
Funny how the accent thing isn’t an issue, eh?
@shavixmir saidOrcs are supposed to have sallow skin and slanted eyes - basically Mongol-style Asians - which are commonly used as identifying characteristics in the setting.
Yeah. But this is fantasy.
The orcs look like orcs, the elves look like elves and the dwarfs look like dwarfs.
There really is no question of which race some character belongs to.
Although the trans-Goblin was pushing it a bit.
@athousandyoung saidYou haven’t watched Rings of Power yet, have you?
Orcs are supposed to have sallow skin and slanted eyes - basically Mongol-style Asians - which are commonly used as identifying characteristics in the setting.
@shavixmir saidThe accent thing sounds like the same sort of thing as the color thing - a disrespectful erasing of significant parts of Tolkein's original setting while simultaneously profiting from the same. Hobbits are specifically supposed to be middle class rural Englishfolk.
When you see the halflings, you know they’re halflings. No matter their colour.
Funny how the accent thing isn’t an issue, eh?
@shavixmir saidNo and I am in no hurry as it sounds like the writers have mercilessly mangled the setting that Tolkein so carefully created.
You haven’t watched Rings of Power yet, have you?
@athousandyoung saidSo, you’re basically talking without any knowledge of how it acts out on screen.
No and I am in no hurry as it sounds like the writers have mercilessly mangled the setting that Tolkein so carefully created.
You’re basing your assumptions on what Tolkien wrote, in a very fundamentalist way, without actually witnessing how it’s addressed in the show.
Actually, your addition to this debate is based on right-wing trolling and doesn’t really add anything useful.
Well, now that’s cleared up…
@shavixmir saidNo as you may be aware I have been fascinated by race and culture for a long time and I studied the influences on Tolkein inspiring him to design his races many years ago. I am no right winger. As I pointed out already goblins/orcs and their mixed race descendants had specific phenotypes based on real human races which were used in setting to identify agents of the Hobbits' enemies. This is true in most fantasy settings - Elder Scrolls, Game of Thrones, the Belgariad, Narnia etc.
So, you’re basically talking without any knowledge of how it acts out on screen.
You’re basing your assumptions on what Tolkien wrote, in a very fundamentalist way, without actually witnessing how it’s addressed in the show.
Actually, your addition to this debate is based on right-wing trolling and doesn’t really add anything useful.
Well, now that’s cleared up…
There was a reason that Jill and Eustace colored their skin when they disguised themselves as Calormen in The Last Battle...
Tirian showed them how to pour out a little of the juice into the palms of their hands and then rub it well over their faces and necks, right down to the shoulders, and then on their hands, right up to the elbows. He did the same himself.
"After this has hardened on us," he said, "we may wash in water and it will not change. Nothing but oil and ashes will make us white Narnians again.
@athousandyoung saidYeah, but you don’t know how it plays on screen.
No as you may be aware I have been fascinated by race and culture for a long time and I studied the influences on Tolkein inspiring him to design his races many years ago. I am no right winger. As I pointed out already goblins/orcs and their mixed race descendants had specific phenotypes based on real human races which were used in setting to identify agents of the H ...[text shortened]... This is true in most fantasy settings - Elder Scrolls, Game of Thrones, the Belgariad, Narnia etc.
It’s all in your head, based on assumptions and your fundamentalist interpretation of Tolkien.
It’s like stating you don’t like bearnaise sauce on your steak, because you don’t like liquorice and aniseed tastes like terragon… without having tasted the combination.
You are judging something based on what you think you like.
@shavixmir saidNo I'm judging something based on its' faithfulness to the source material.
Yeah, but you don’t know how it plays on screen.
It’s all in your head, based on assumptions and your fundamentalist interpretation of Tolkien.
It’s like stating you don’t like bearnaise sauce on your steak, because you don’t like liquorice and aniseed tastes like terragon… without having tasted the combination.
You are judging something based on what you think you like.
@athousandyoung saidThere are many ways something can be faithful to the source material.
No I'm judging something based on its' faithfulness to the source material.
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.
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The Lord of the Rings, The Return of the King, Book Five, Ch. VI: "The Battle of the Pelennor Fields"
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Haradrim#cite_note-4
The Haradrim were bold and grim men, fierce in despair. They were tall and dark-skinned with black hair and dark eyes, and for that they were called Swertings or Swarthy Men. The men of Near Harad were brown-skinned, with black hair and dark eyes, while the race known as "half-trolls" out of Far Harad had black skin.
@shavixmir saidSometimes the proof of the pudding lay in the fact that it is visibly not a pudding. I don't have to eat a a ham sandwich to prove it's not pudding.
There are many ways something can be faithful to the source material.
The proof of the pudding is in the tasting.
Of course it's possible the show is very good but it's clearly not true to the source material.
@athousandyoung saidLMAO! Who cares if it's faithful to the source material? GOT certainly wasn't. If you're so worried about faithfulness to the source material, read the books again.
No I'm judging something based on its' faithfulness to the source material.
From what I understand, some characters are composites and some events are compressed in time. Who cares? It's fiction and an adaptation which hardly ever follow precisely the source material. Complaining about the "race" of the actors when it is irrelevant to the story seems particularly stupid.
@no1marauder saidI would imagine people who care about "ruin[ing] Tolkien's vision" care about faithfulness to the source material which is the topic of this thread.
LMAO! Who cares if it's faithful to the source material? GOT certainly wasn't. If you're so worried about faithfulness to the source material, read the books again.
From what I understand, some characters are composites and some events are compressed in time. Who cares? It's fiction and an adaptation which hardly ever follow precisely the source material. Complaining about the "race" of the actors when it is irrelevant to the story seems particularly stupid.