Does casting black and Hispanics in some of the roles in this miniseries ruin Tolkien's vision as some right wingers insist?
"Morse is deputy managing editor of RedState, a conservative news site. He says "The Rings of Power" producers have cast non-White actors in a story based on European culture and who look wildly different from how Tolkien originally described them. He says it's an attempt to embed "social justice politics" into Tolkien's world."
https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/03/entertainment/lord-of-the-rings-amazon-controversy-blake-cec/?dicbo=v2-c086de5aa245586a6dfbba7de01c1de9&hpt=ob_blogfooterold
Personally, I wasn't aware that the fictional world of Middle Earth was based solely on "European culture" and don't have much of a problem with the casting (apparently that's not the only problem right wingers have with the show; the main female character, Galadriel" isn't "feminine enough" according to some quoted in the cited article).
But we can see that this is really what right wing politics has mainly devolved to i.e. complaining about such nonsense as "proof" of some supposed hostility to White folks on the part of the "Left" (which every entertainment network is assumed to be by them). Well, I guess their traditional "Rich people should pay less taxes" thingy doesn't work as well in focus groups so they need something.
@no1marauder saidTolkien was writing about the human condition, good versus evil, and a lot of bonding, he did not write about white people, only an Ork would make that argument, clearly Morse is an Ork.
Does casting black and Hispanics in some of the roles in this miniseries ruin Tolkien's vision as some right wingers insist?
"Morse is deputy managing editor of RedState, a conservative news site. He says "The Rings of Power" producers have cast non-White actors in a story based on European culture and who look wildly different from how Tolkien originally described the ...[text shortened]... le should pay less taxes" thingy doesn't work as well in focus groups so they need something.
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@kevcvs57 saidI'm guessing that the "Black Riders" should be removed from Tolkien's story as well.
Tolkien was writing about the human condition, good versus evil, and a lot of bonding, he did not write about white people, only an Ork would make that argument, clearly Morse is an Ork.
We wouldn't want J.R.R to posthumously suffer the "liberal activist" label, would we?
Seriously Maga people, just listen to yourselves.
I watched the first two episodes. Excellent stuff.
A black elf? Hardly noticed. Sure, different than Tolkien’s angelesque description, but somehow fitted. Didn’t distract.
A black halfling (or furfoot or whatever they were called) didn’t really notice, but who cares? They are travelling peoples (before they settled in the Shire), so it’s logical they’re a mash-up of everything.
IF anything could be said about it, it may be the Irish / Pikey accents they have. But that suited them too. Basically stereotyping them as travellers. No problem with it personally.
A black dwarf. That I found strange. Why would cave dwellers have such pigmentation? But the scene was so endearing, I couldn’t care less.
One of the main characters is Galadriel. A woman!!! Ugh!
Oh, wait. It’s basically her back story as a Sauron hunter isn’t it? Yeah. Pretty much sure she should play a leading role in it.
Not feminine enough? Have you met Israeli female soldiers? Or an angry Scottish woman.
One simply does not walk into Mordor hunting Sauron dressed in a skirt.
Seriously. Anyone getting their knickers in a twist about adding a few colour-diverse characters has serious personal issues. And looks likely to miss out on a great show.
Tolkein's Middle Earth is supposed to be based on England which is where this argument comes from but this includes industrial England in Isengard which was during the Imperial era with more racial interactions going on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_in_Middle-earth#Dedicated_%22to_my_country%22
I had a mind to make a body of more or less connected legend, ranging from the large and cosmogonic, to the level of romantic fairy-story – the larger founded on the lesser in contact with the earth, the lesser drawing splendour from the vast backcloths – which I could dedicate simply to: to England; to my country. ... I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama.
— Letter #131 to Milton Waldman (at Collins), late 1951
Drout comments that scholars broadly agree that Tolkien "succeeded in this project".[32] Carl F. Hostetter and Arden R. Smith state that Tolkien created the mythology initially as a home for his invented languages, discovering as he did so that he wanted to make a properly English epic, spanning England's geography, language, and mythology.[34]
There is mention of Blue Wizards who travelled to the east into other lands which implies other races and cultures besides the ones in the books.
@shavixmir saidThat is strange - to have token Blacks in each of the in-universe races. So races have races and each race has sub races that match the sub races of the other races?
I watched the first two episodes. Excellent stuff.
A black elf? Hardly noticed. Sure, different than Tolkien’s angelesque description, but somehow fitted. Didn’t distract.
A black halfling (or furfoot or whatever they were called) didn’t really notice, but who cares? They are travelling peoples (before they settled in the Shire), so it’s logical they’re a mash-up of eve ...[text shortened]... colour-diverse characters has serious personal issues. And looks likely to miss out on a great show.
Dwarves were inspired in part by Jews and Lonely Mountain was their Israel by the way. But they are given ancient Anglo Saxon names. I think the Elves were partially based on Finns.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Haradrim had a lot of Blacks and browns in their ranks with their elephants and such.
Gondor was based on a mixtures of various Mediterranean empires of ancient times.
I'm trying to imagine a Skyrim movie with token black Nords and Bretons and white Redguards.
It bothers me.
Characters like this
https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Rayya
make sense because even though she is a Thane's Housecarl she has a backstory in which she is an acknowledged Redguard not a black Nord.
@athousandyoung saidOr they just chose people best suited for the roles and didn’t mind that they were a different colour.
That is strange - to have token Blacks in each of the in-universe races. So races have races and each race has sub races that match the sub races of the other races?
Dwarves were inspired in part by Jews and Lonely Mountain was their Israel by the way. But they are given ancient Anglo Saxon names. I think the Elves were partially based on Finns.
I wouldn't be ...[text shortened]... hants and such.
Gondor was based on a mixtures of various Mediterranean empires of ancient times.
Seriously, in the series (so far) it’s really not any sort of an issue.
And I read about people complaining about the theatric dialogue… yeah, as if Legolas’ was any better in the original?
People are so hung up about colour and gender diversity, whether adding it or complaining about it, it’s become a landmine of stupidity.
Just watch the show and enjoy it.
@shavixmir saidGame of Thrones wouldn't be the same if blonde hair was randomly distributed among all people groups because then nobody would know Joffrey came from incest. Cersei could have popped out a black son and nobody would have batted an eye in such a world.
Or they just chose people best suited for the roles and didn’t mind that they were a different colour.
Seriously, in the series (so far) it’s really not any sort of an issue.
And I read about people complaining about the theatric dialogue… yeah, as if Legolas’ was any better in the original?
People are so hung up about colour and gender diversity, whether adding it or complaining about it, it’s become a landmine of stupidity.
Just watch the show and enjoy it.
Imagine Mexicans and Swedes playing Wakanda natives lol
@shavixmir saidSeparating racial phenotypes from race and cultures ruins immersion and makes it hard to enjoy for many of us.
Or they just chose people best suited for the roles and didn’t mind that they were a different colour.
Seriously, in the series (so far) it’s really not any sort of an issue.
And I read about people complaining about the theatric dialogue… yeah, as if Legolas’ was any better in the original?
People are so hung up about colour and gender diversity, whether adding it or complaining about it, it’s become a landmine of stupidity.
Just watch the show and enjoy it.
I prefer my Anglo-Zulu war depictions to have whites with guns and Blacks with spears, sorry
@athousandyoung saidCould be.
Game of Thrones wouldn't be the same if blonde hair was randomly distributed among all people groups because then nobody would know Joffrey came from incest. Cersei could have popped out a black son and nobody would have batted an eye in such a world.
But, whether the angelic elf is white or black doesn’t make a difference. It’s neither here not there in the story. There’s smooth skin, pointed ears, dress, poise, etc. which makes an elf an elf.
Same with the hobbits. They’re obviously travellers (migratory peoples) in this era and then it’s not strange to have a mixed bunch in the group.
And the black dwarf… well… uh… okay, but she certainly looks like a dwarf.
So, it doesn’t make a difference in this story.
@athousandyoung saidThat's different; the skin color of any of the characters in the Rings of Power is irrelevant to any plot detail.
Game of Thrones wouldn't be the same if blonde hair was randomly distributed among all people groups because then nobody would know Joffrey came from incest. Cersei could have popped out a black son and nobody would have batted an eye in such a world.
Imagine Mexicans and Swedes playing Wakanda natives lol
@athousandyoung saidYeah. But this is fantasy.
Separating racial phenotypes from race and cultures ruins immersion and makes it hard to enjoy for many of us.
I prefer my Anglo-Zulu war depictions to have whites with guns and Blacks with spears, sorry
The orcs look like orcs, the elves look like elves and the dwarfs look like dwarfs.
There really is no question of which race some character belongs to.
Although the trans-Goblin was pushing it a bit.
@no1marauder saidBecause these non-Tolkein writers chose to write the plot in such a way as to skim over that part of the setting. In the Hobbit a half-man half-orc was instantly identifiable as such by his phenotype.
That's different; the skin color of any of the characters in the Rings of Power is irrelevant to any plot detail.