1. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    14 Aug '12 13:25
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    What's a "Euro-type entitlement society"?
    France, for example.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_protection_in_France

    Social benefits amount to 30% of gross domestic product and around 45% of household income.


    45% of household income comes from the government. That is an entitlement society.
  2. Joined
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    14 Aug '12 16:35
    Ryan has spent no time as a community organizer. As a result, I have no idea what Romney was thinking in picking him. Clearly he has no background to handle such a job.
  3. Germany
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    14 Aug '12 16:361 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    France, for example.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_protection_in_France

    Social benefits amount to 30% of gross domestic product and around 45% of household income.


    45% of household income comes from the government. That is an entitlement society.
    That is a misleading stat because a tax credit and a "social benefit" are interchangable. France is actually a pretty unequal society, with poor benefits and low social mobility compared to Northern Europe. I was in Paris recently and no less than 4 beggars asked me for money on the first day I was there (and rural areas, especially in the South, are much poorer than the Paris region). Entitlement society? Please. France just has a bloated, bureaucratic government.
  4. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
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    14 Aug '12 16:56
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    That is a misleading stat because a tax credit and a "social benefit" are interchangable. France is actually a pretty unequal society, with poor benefits and low social mobility compared to Northern Europe. I was in Paris recently and no less than 4 beggars asked me for money on the first day I was there (and rural areas, especially in the South, are mu ...[text shortened]... aris region). Entitlement society? Please. France just has a bloated, bureaucratic government.
    Well, then Michael Moore is full of BS (not that I have any trouble believing that) because in "Sicko" he painted France as this utopia where the government provides everything necessary for everyone and the biggest thing ordinary people have to worry about is buying fish and going on exotic vacations.
  5. Germany
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    14 Aug '12 17:04
    Originally posted by sh76
    Well, then Michael Moore is full of BS (not that I have any trouble believing that) because in "Sicko" he painted France as this utopia where the government provides everything necessary for everyone and the biggest thing ordinary people have to worry about is buying fish and going on exotic vacations.
    France is much, much poorer than Northern Europe. But yes, of course it has a better health care system than the US. That's hardly an accomplishment.
  6. Standard memberno1marauder
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    14 Aug '12 19:192 edits
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    You got that so ass backwards I dont even know where to begin.
    The progressive scums in the White House are not champions of the middle class nor minorities for that matter.
    They are the ones who started this class warfare crap and you are eating it up hook line and sinker.
    The middle class ( and I am one of them) want jobs. We dont want to be on ...[text shortened]... one when they hit retirement age.
    Republicans are the only ones coming up with plans to fix it.
    So you don't want a Euro-type entitlement society, but you do want to receive MediCare and Social Security? Do you mean that YOU want entitlements, but you don't think other people should get them?

    As for the claim "Republicans are the only ways with plans to fix them" (by essentially abolishing both) that is alas another lie:

    I’ve got a modest proposal: You’re not allowed to demand a “serious conversation” over Medicare unless you can answer these three questions:
    1) Mitt Romney says that “unlike the current president who has cut Medicare funding by $700 billion. We will preserve and protect Medicare.” What happens to those cuts in the Ryan budget?
    2) What is the growth rate of Medicare under the Ryan budget?
    3) What is the growth rate of Medicare under the Obama budget?
    The answers to these questions are, in order, “it keeps them,” “GDP+0.5%,” and “GDP+0.5%.”
    Let’s be very clear on what that means: Ryan’s budget — which Romney has endorsed — keeps Obama’s cuts to Medicare, and both Ryan and Obama envision the same long-term spending path for Medicare. The difference between the two campaigns is not in how much they cut Medicare, but in how they cut Medicare.


    This brings us to the big myth of this campaign, or at least of this particular conversation: That Republicans, but not Democrats, have a plan to cut Medicare costs. As Ryan pointedly put it in his first speech as Romney’s vice-presidential pick, “We won’t duck the tough issues. We will lead!”
    Obama’s Medicare reform plan isn’t that hard to find. It’s largely in Title III of The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. The basic strategy has three components: First, figure out what “quality” in health care is. Second, figure out how to pay for quality rather than paying for volume. Third, make it easier for Medicare to quickly update itself to reflect both advances in knowledge about what quality is and how to pay for it.
    And so, in Title III, you’ll find dozens of different efforts to achieve these goals. The most famous of them is Section 3403, which establishes the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB). But there’s also Section 3021, which creates the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation, and Section 3025, which cuts hospital reimbursements if too many of their patients are readmitted, and Section 3001, which establishes value-based purchasing for hospital services, and Section 3015, which collects data on quality, and Section 3502, which advances the medical home model.
    Some of the efforts are outside Title III. The Patient-Centered Outcomes Research Institute is actually in Title VI of the law. And then there are the subsequent reforms the administration has proposed to save more money. Those can be found on pages 33-37 of the president’s 2013 budget proposal. They include expanding IPAB’s mandate such that it can change Medicare’s benefit package and setting a growth cap on Medicare of GDP+0.5 percentage points — which is, by the way, the same growth cap that Rep. Paul Ryan imposes in the latest iteration of his budget.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/08/13/the-white-houses-medicare-plan-isnt-that-hard-to-find/
  7. Joined
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    14 Aug '12 23:21
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    LMAO !
    42 months of unemployment at 8%+
    Record astronomical debt that will never be paid off.
    Credit rating down grade
    Record numbers on food stamps.
    That sounds good to you ?
    I suppose you think Bush Jr., whom Ryan followed voting wise, had nothing to do with your facts.
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    14 Aug '12 23:23
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ryan has spent no time as a community organizer. As a result, I have no idea what Romney was thinking in picking him. Clearly he has no background to handle such a job.
    "Ryan has spent no time as a community organizer" True but he is a Washington insider who has little experience outside in the real world.
  9. Subscribersonhouse
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    15 Aug '12 01:46
    Originally posted by kbear1k
    "Ryan has spent no time as a community organizer" True but he is a Washington insider who has little experience outside in the real world.
    well, he did drive that Weinermobile and served taco's.....
  10. Hy-Brasil
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    15 Aug '12 09:58
    Originally posted by kbear1k
    I suppose you think Bush Jr., whom Ryan followed voting wise, had nothing to do with your facts.
    Ah, I see you are still on the " its all George Bush's fault" rhetoric 4 years later.
    How about answering the question I asked you ?
  11. Subscribersonhouse
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    15 Aug '12 10:17
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Ah, I see you are still on the " its all George Bush's fault" rhetoric 4 years later.
    How about answering the question I asked you ?
    How bout realizing Bush Jr. caused a downwards spiral we are still struggling to get out of even today?
  12. Hy-Brasil
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    15 Aug '12 10:30
    Originally posted by sonhouse
    How bout realizing Bush Jr. caused a downwards spiral we are still struggling to get out of even today?
    This tired old line of its all GW's fault is wearing thin.
    Obama has been in there for one full term and has done nothing but make matters worse.
    Why anyone would want another 4 years of this madness is beyond me.
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    15 Aug '12 11:31
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Ah, I see you are still on the " its all George Bush's fault" rhetoric 4 years later.
    How about answering the question I asked you ?
    I'm not blaming it all on Bush but he and his ilk had a large part in the problem. You also seem to forget that the republicans also blocked all the Obama tried to accomplish.

    I also hold Obama responsible for the bank bailouts - he should have let them fail.

    Things are not better four years on but much of the blame has to be laid on congress - mostly republican.
    How about you telling us how the Romeny/Ryan plan for the nation is better than Obama's. Then we can start a real debate on the merits of their positions.
  14. Hy-Brasil
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    15 Aug '12 11:59
    Originally posted by kbear1k
    I'm not blaming it all on Bush but he and his ilk had a large part in the problem. You also seem to forget that the republicans also blocked all the Obama tried to accomplish.

    I also hold Obama responsible for the bank bailouts - he should have let them fail.

    Things are not better four years on but much of the blame has to be laid on congress - mostly ...[text shortened]... tion is better than Obama's. Then we can start a real debate on the merits of their positions.
    Again, more tired old lines coming from the left about Republicans blocking or obstructing everything their Messiah tried to accomplish. "If it was not for them it would be ok now", or words to that affect.
    You seem to forget that the first two years of Obamas Presidency he had the majority of both the House and Senate. And what did he do with it ?
    It did not go unnoticed. The 2010 beat down showed that and this 2012 election will as well.
  15. Subscribersonhouse
    Fast and Curious
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    15 Aug '12 16:43
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Again, more tired old lines coming from the left about Republicans blocking or obstructing everything their Messiah tried to accomplish. "If it was not for them it would be ok now", or words to that affect.
    You seem to forget that the first two years of Obamas Presidency he had the majority of both the House and Senate. And what did he do with it ?
    It did not go unnoticed. The 2010 beat down showed that and this 2012 election will as well.
    If so, it will go to prove you get the best government you can buy. Go ahead, deny millions are being pumped in by anonymous donors. You can thank the Supreme Court for that one.

    One billionaire dude I heard say he will donate 100 MILLION to defeat Obama.

    I guess he figures he will get ten times that much back when the back room deals start coming in. Oh wait, Republicans are for the middle class. I forgot.
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