Originally posted by Redmike" ..... and already debated to death here."
Wildly off topic, and already debated to death here.
You guys who believe your imaginary friend created the universe in 6 days can carry on in that superstition. The rest of us will work in the world of facts.
Not by our new RHP debaters 🙂
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Originally posted by RedmikeAlways the same misconceptions about the Pope's infallibility.
Even the best players have to resign sometimes - doesn't make them lousy players.
Of course, the pope would never get a bad position, as he's infallible, we're told.
The popes who thought the earth was flat were infallible too.
Only statements made "ex cathedra" are supposed to be infallible.
The only "ex cathedra" statements the present pope has made are beatifications.
The old Ptolemaic scientific notion that the earth was in the center of the universe, was never an article of Christian faith, let alone an "ex cathedra" statement made by some pope in the past.
The pope, any pope, can think what he wants, but that doesn't make it true.
By the way, the present Pope was an excellent chessplayer in his younger days. See Gary Kasparov's and Raymond Keene's Batsford Chess Openings page 51.
note 15:
"4 Kf3 g6 (4 ... h6 5 Bh4 e6 6 e4 g5 ! <> Zartobliwy - Woytila, * Cracow 1946.
* later John Paul II "
Originally posted by ivanhoeI knew about his chess abilities, but I've learned something about his infallibility.
Always the same misconceptions about the Pope's infallibility.
Only statements made "ex cathedra" are supposed to be infallible.
The only "ex cathedra" statements the present pope has made are beatifications.
The old Ptolemaic scientific notion that the earth was in the center of the universe, was never an article of Christian faith, let al ...[text shortened]... ... h6 5 Bh4 e6 6 e4 g5 ! <> Zartobliwy - Woytila, * Cracow 1946.
* later John Paul II "
In terms of the Earth being the centre of the universe, why did people like Galileo get into such trouble if it wasn't an article of christian faith?
Are all beatifications infallible then? Or have there been cases where people considered saintly have, on subsequent evidence, turned out to be otherwise?
Originally posted by Redmike
I knew about his chess abilities, but I've learned something about his infallibility.
In terms of the Earth being the centre of the universe, why did people like Galileo get into such trouble if it wasn't an article of christian faith?
Are all beatifications infallible then? Or have there been cases where people considered saintly have, on subsequent evidence, turned out to be otherwise?
RM: "In terms of the Earth being the centre of the universe, why did people like Galileo get into such trouble if it wasn't an article of christian faith?"
If you want to understand what happened you'll have to study the way society was organised at the time and the place the Church was taking therein. The conflict was a scientific one like we have them all the time. This scientific problem was instrumentalised to use in a power struggle within society and of course due to the situation within the Church.
Studying the situation you'll find that there were a lot of Christian scientists supporting Galileo, also a devote Christian.
At the time it was a political struggle and the events then, adjusted for use in the political struggle nòw, are still used today as a weapon in a different political struggle, but just as then this struggle now is a political one, a struggle for dominance and power, not a scientific one.
The earth is not the centre of the universe, but neither is the sun. As we all know Einstein taught us that in our universe èvery point in space/time is the centre of the universe.
I want to add that even in our human conception today the earth still is the centre of the universe simply because we are inhabiting it. It is a psychological notion.
We all know there are people who think thèy are the centre of the universe. In the Einsteinian sense they are right ..... know what I'm saying ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeOK - that's fair enough. I understand that Galileo's problems were about changes in society in general.
RM: "In terms of the Earth being the centre of the universe, why did people like Galileo get into such trouble if it wasn't an article of christian faith?"
If you want to understand what happened you'll have to study the way society was organised at the time and the place the Church was taking therein. The conflict was a scientific one like we have ...[text shortened]... entre of the universe. In the Einsteinian sense they are right ..... know what I'm saying ?
What's the position about beatifications? Have there been any instances of these being regretted after the event?
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Originally posted by RedmikeRM: "Are all beatifications infallible then? Or have there been cases where people considered saintly have, on subsequent evidence, turned out to be otherwise?"
I knew about his chess abilities, but I've learned something about his infallibility.
In terms of the Earth being the centre of the universe, why did people like Galileo get into such trouble if it wasn't an article of christian faith?
...[text shortened]... saintly have, on subsequent evidence, turned out to be otherwise?
If peope are being beatified this doesnt mean that they have never sinned during their earthly life.
From the Gospel of Luke:
"39 And one of the hanged criminals blasphemed Him, saying, If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.
40 But answering, the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, for you are in the same judgment?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive things worthy of what we did. But this One did nothing wrong.
42 And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come in Your kingdom.
43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you will be with Me in Paradise."
I consider this passage to be crucial (!) in understanding what the Gospel is all about.
Originally posted by Redmike
OK - that's fair enough. I understand that Galileo's problems were about changes in society in general.
What's the position about beatifications? Have there been any instances of these being regretted after the event?
An official, valid and ex-cathedra spoken beatification was never withdrawn.