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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    06 Aug '09 11:08
    Power to the people I say:

    http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates/
  2. Standard member MacSwain
    Who is John Galt?
    06 Aug '09 13:17
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Power to the people I say:

    http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates/
    Two major points of his article cannot be integrated.

    Surely nuclear waste offshore of a level to sicken and kill has contaminating effect on the seafood being caught by foreigners. Yet there have been no reports of mercury poisoning, radiation sickness or death from these illnesses in the looters home countries.

    “dump our nuclear waste in their seas….The coastal population began to sicken….they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies….suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died….also lead and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury – you name it.”

    “At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia’s seas of their greatest resource: seafood….More than $300 million worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea life is being stolen every year.”
  3. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    06 Aug '09 13:19 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by MacSwain
    Two major points of his article cannot be integrated.

    Surely nuclear waste offshore of a level to sicken and kill has contaminating effect on the seafood being caught by foreigners. Yet there have been no reports of mercury poisoning, radiation sickness or death from these illnesses in the looters home countries.
    The answer is in the article:

    Postscript: Some commentators seem bemused by the fact that both toxic dumping and the theft of fish are happening in the same place – wouldn’t this make the fish contaminated? In fact, Somalia’s coastline is vast, stretching 3,300km (over 2,000 miles). Imagine how easy it would be – without any coast guard or army – to steal fish from Florida and dump nuclear waste on California, and you get the idea. These events are happening in different places but with the same horrible effect: death for the locals and stirred-up piracy. There’s no contradiction.

    May I presume that you didn't read the article?
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Aug '09 13:45
    It takes a special type of twisted liberal mind to actually defend piracy.

    I congratulate the San Francisco media for breaking yet another barrier.
  5. Standard member MacSwain
    Who is John Galt?
    06 Aug '09 13:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    The answer is in the article:

    Postscript: Some commentators seem bemused by the fact that both toxic dumping and the theft of fish are happening in the same place – wouldn’t this make the fish contaminated? In fact, Somalia’s coastline is vast, stretching 3,300km (over 2,000 miles). Imagine how easy it would be – without any coast guard or army – ...[text shortened]... red-up piracy. There’s no contradiction.

    May I presume that you didn't read the article?
    You are correct. I didn't read the postscripts.

    Obviously his editor spotted his inconsistency in time for the aforementioned explanatory postscript to be added before printing.

    I do thank you for the additional info - as I had no idea Somolia was as massive as U.S.

    In addition, I hope nations, those who dump and those who fish, keep in first rate contact so as to avoid fishing where others dump and dumping where others fish. Otherwise Europe and Asia will be poisoned also.

    In fact, for dumping and fishing exploiters to have operated in concert til now indicates the entire operation ranks as conspiracy against Somolia.
  6. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    06 Aug '09 13:57 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    It takes a special type of twisted liberal mind to actually defend piracy.

    I congratulate the San Francisco media for breaking yet another barrier.
    But to defend the dumping and looting of a country all it needs a sane mind isn't it?

    Did you understand that the piracy only came as a result of looting and polluting? It isn't about defending piracy it is about explaining piracy.
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Aug '09 14:00
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    But to defend the dumping and looting of a country all it needs a sane mind isn't it?

    Did you understand that the piracy only came as a result of looting and polluting?
    Fine. Then they're both wrong.

    But don't justify the pirates' actions any more than you'd justify a rape-murder on the grounds that the murderer was abused as a child.

    "Levy a tax"?? LOL That's a good one. They attack ships to steal money and property and take hostages to hold for ransom. That is not justified. Period.
  8. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    06 Aug '09 14:05
    Originally posted by sh76
    Fine. Then they're both wrong.

    But don't justify the pirates' actions any more than you'd justify a rape-murder on the grounds that the murderer was abused as a child.

    "Levy a tax"?? LOL That's a good one. They attack ships to steal money and property and take hostages to hold for ransom. That is not justified. Period.
    It isn't justifying it is explaining. And there's a world of difference between those two concepts.

    They attack ships to steal money and property and take hostages to hold for ransom. That is not justified. Period.

    No, this doesn’t make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters – especially those who have held up World Food Program supplies. But the “pirates” have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason.
  9. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Aug '09 14:07
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    It isn't justifying it is explaining. And there's a world of difference between those two concepts.

    They attack ships to steal money and property and take hostages to hold for ransom. That is not justified. Period.

    [b]No, this doesn’t make hostage-taking justifiable
    , and yes, some are clearly just gangsters – especially those who hav ...[text shortened]... ies. But the “pirates” have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason.[/b]
    The article does more than just explain. It casts the pirates in a positive light.

    ===But the “pirates” have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason.===


    "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul"

    - George Bernard Shaw
  10. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    06 Aug '09 14:17
    Originally posted by MacSwain
    You are correct. I didn't read the postscripts.

    Obviously his editor spotted his inconsistency in time for the aforementioned explanatory postscript to be added before printing.

    I do thank you for the additional info - as I had no idea Somolia was as massive as U.S.

    In addition, I hope nations, those who dump and those who fish, keep in first ra ...[text shortened]... operated in concert til now indicates the entire operation ranks as conspiracy against Somolia.
    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Somali-Pirates-Seized-Ships-Hijackings-In-The-Countrys-Waters/Article/200808315079721
    http://www.unep.org/cpi/briefs/Brief16Mar05.doc
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article418665.ece
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-somalia-pirates_salopek1oct10,0,6155016.story
    http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=27114

    No thanks needed.
  11. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    06 Aug '09 14:21
    Originally posted by sh76
    The article does more than just explain. It casts the pirates in a positive light.

    ===But the “pirates” have the overwhelming support of the local population for a reason.===


    "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul"

    - George Bernard Shaw
    Apparently it is a fact that the majority of the somali population endorses the pirates. And I think it wouldn't hurt us to try to understand why this is so.

    "A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul"

    Is this why you're defending western world policies?

    Somali people can get looted, polluted and treated like peons in the great circus of geo-politics. But if some poor fishermen decide to fight back against the agressors suddenly they are the bad guys and can't get some different angle stories published on them?
  12. Standard member MacSwain
    Who is John Galt?
    06 Aug '09 14:38
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Somali-Pirates-Seized-Ships-Hijackings-In-The-Countrys-Waters/Article/200808315079721
    http://www.unep.org/cpi/briefs/Brief16Mar05.doc
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/article418665.ece
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-somalia-pirates_salopek1oct10,0,6155016.story
    http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=27114

    No thanks needed.
    What has this lot to do with your indications Somalia was a large as the U.S.? Don't you remember you said "to steal fish from Florida and dump nuclear waste on California," which is perfidy in the extreme.


    btw....In response to this remark from you, my "thanks" was tongue firmly in cheek.
  13. Standard member adam warlock
    Baby Gauss
    06 Aug '09 14:51
    Originally posted by MacSwain
    What has this lot to do with your indications Somalia was a large as the U.S.? Don't you remember you said "to steal fish from Florida and dump nuclear waste on California," which is perfidy in the extreme.


    btw....In response to this remark from you, my "thanks" was tongue firmly in cheek.
    My "no thanks needed" had a tongue so firmly in cheek that I almost pierced it.

    This lot has to do with your facetious remark about the looting and polluting of Somalia's shore.

    I didn't say "to steal fish from Florida and dump nuclear waste on California," I quoted that from the article. What's the distance between Florida and California? According to this http://www.convertunits.com/distance/from/California/to/Florida it is something like 3685 Km. What's the length of the coast in Somalia? According to this https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/so.html it is 3025 km. So as you can see both distances have the same order of magnitude. The point that was trying to be conveyed in the article is that Somalia has a very large coast and so the scenario of looting and polluting doesn't have to be wrong. And the author of the article used a comparison familiar to USA readers so that they could have a feel of the magnitude of the coast of Somalia.

    Once again no thanks needed.
  14. 06 Aug '09 15:14
    Article has one problem. It's a complete work of fiction.

    1. Somalia doesn't have a fishing industry and no one is fishing off it's shores anyway. (Because of the pirate problem)

    2. No one is dumping any nuclear waste in the ocean.

    It's just typical blabbering of the black bay area newspaper, nothing is their fault, whities the devil, etc, etc.
  15. 06 Aug '09 15:23
    Originally posted by adam warlock
    Power to the people I say:

    http://www.sfbayview.com/2009/you-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates/
    what if they stole all your possessions and took your home away from you?

    would you still be chanting "power to the people"?