Stimulus

Originally posted by utherpendragon
read it and weep:

"Under my plan," Obama said September 12, 2008 in Dover, N.H., "no family making less than $250,000.00 a year will see any form of tax increase." To emphasize the point he continued, "Not your income taxes, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

I always weep at your ignorance

Originally posted by StTito
I always weep at your ignorance

ignorance? you are proven wrong again.how does crow taste?

Originally posted by utherpendragon
ignorance? you are proven wrong again.how does crow taste?

spouting right wing nutjob's talking points does not a point make. Is that all you learned in the military, taking others orders?

Originally posted by StTito
spouting right wing nutjob's talking points does not a point make. Is that all you learned in the military, taking others orders?

what?! you said obama did not say such and such.I show you the quote,you call me ignorant. real mature.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
read it and weep:

"Under my plan," Obama said September 12, 2008 in Dover, N.H., "no family making less than $250,000.00 a year will see any form of tax increase." To emphasize the point he continued, "Not your income taxes, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

Has Obama actually raised taxes on anyone (except the rich and corporations, which he hasn't done yet)?

Originally posted by karnachz
Has Obama actually raised taxes on anyone (except the rich and corporations, which he hasn't done yet)?

No. In fact there haven't been any tax bills that have been passed since Obama took over other than a few rebates and credits that were part of the stimulus package. That's what makes this discussion so odd.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
what?! you said obama did not say such and such.I show you the quote,you call me ignorant. real mature.

Getting a prediction wrong about unemployment is not "lying through [one's] teeth.

utherpendragon, seriously, your wheels seem to have fallen off a little. Is everything OK?

Originally posted by sh76
No. In fact there haven't been any tax bills that have been passed since Obama took over other than a few rebates and credits that were part of the stimulus package. That's what makes this discussion so odd.

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama signed a bill Wednesday extending health coverage to 4 million uninsured children, a much-needed win a day after he lost his nominee to lead his drive for sweeping health care reform. “This is good. This is good,” a smiling Obama said as he entered the East Room for the packed, ebullient signing ceremony.


During the campaign, Obama promised not to raises taxes on Americans making less than $250,000 a year. It took him two weeks to break this promise.
The bill went to the White House fresh from passage in the Democratic-controlled House, on a vote of 290-135. Forty Republicans joined in approval.
The bill calls for spending an additional $32.8 billion on the State Children’s Health Insurance Program, known as SCHIP, which now enrolls an estimated 7 million children. Lawmakers generated that revenue by raising the federal tobacco tax.
Obama said adding 4 million children to the program was a key step toward his promise of universal health care coverage for all.
“We fulfill one of the highest responsibilities that we have, to ensure the health and well-being of our nation’s children,” the president said before a cheering audience of families, lawmakers and interest groups. “Providing coverage to 11 million children is a downpayment on my commitment to cover every single American.”

WHAT IS THIS? A TAX! DOES IT AFFECT PEOPLE MAKING UNDER 250,000? YES!

Originally posted by utherpendragon
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama signed a bill Wednesday extending health coverage to 4 million uninsured children, a much-needed win a day after he lost his nominee to lead his drive for sweeping health care reform. “This is good. This is good,” a smiling Obama said as he entered the East Room for the packed, ebullient signing ceremony.


Du ...[text shortened]... every single American.”

WHAT IS THIS? A TAX! DOES IT AFFECT PEOPLE MAKING UNDER 250,000? YES!

raising the federal tobacco tax is your point? because it affects some people who earn less than $250K a year?

Seriously, that's ridiculous.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
it is common knowledge he said (paraphrasing) we had to push the stimulus through now to keep unemployment from hitting 8%. We are now closing in on 10% w/ it passed. so whats up w/ that?

It is possible that without the stimulus package it would have been 11 or 12 percent.

I don't understand how you can seriously think pumping billions into the economy will not create jobs on the short term. It may or may not prove to be a good plan in the future, but come on, this is hardly rocket science.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama signed a bill Wednesday extending health coverage to 4 million uninsured children, a much-needed win a day after he lost his nominee to lead his drive for sweeping health care reform. “This is good. This is good,” a smiling Obama said as he entered the East Room for the packed, ebullient signing ceremony.


Du ...[text shortened]... every single American.”

WHAT IS THIS? A TAX! DOES IT AFFECT PEOPLE MAKING UNDER 250,000? YES!

Oh okay; I see what you mean.

Saying that he raised the tobacco tax is one of those "okay; technically you're right; but that's not what he meant" type of deals.

Obama meant he wasn't going to raise the income tax. Ancillary taxes that are based on consumer choice are not really what he was referring to.

I don't mind an increase in the tobacco tax, but I guess that's because I don't smoke.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
It is possible that without the stimulus package it would have been 11 or 12 percent.

I don't understand how you can seriously think pumping billions into the economy will not create jobs on the short term. It may or may not prove to be a good plan in the future, but come on, this is hardly rocket science.

Ultimately, the economy turns on consumer confidence. If you pump a trillion dollars into the economy but employers don't believe that this is a fundamentally good thing in the long run, the job creation effect of the stimulus is going to be minimal.

Granted, it's early. I'm willing to give Obama at least another 6 months before I judge his performance on the economy. But, you can't simply always apologize for him by saying "Well, maybe it would have been worse if..." By that standard, you can never judge anything.

Originally posted by sh76
Oh okay; I see what you mean.

Saying that he raised the tobacco tax is one of those "okay; technically you're right; but that's not what he meant" type of deals.

Obama meant he wasn't going to raise the income tax. Ancillary taxes that are based on consumer choice are not really what he was referring to.

I don't mind an increase in the tobacco tax, but I guess that's because I don't smoke.

ok sh76,i am not gonna get in a pissing contest w/you.i respect your opinions and the way you carry your self.with that being said,i dont know "what he meant",all i know is what he said."no new tax what so ever on any one making under 250,000 pr. yr."
who does the tobacco tax hurt? the little man thats who.We are not talking a few cents here.This seriously hurts the working stiff.
I will sit back and wait and say i told you so,when everyone sees what happens to the working class man w/ all this "change we can believe in" comes to be.This is the tip of the ice berg.Alcohol,soda,tobacco, salt,mandatory health care or your fined(see massachusetts)is all coming down the pike.The people who will be hurt the most is the working stiff.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
ok sh76,i am not gonna get in a pissing contest w/you.i respect your opinions and the way you carry your self.with that being said,i dont know "what he meant",all i know is what he said."no new tax what so ever on any one making under 250,000 pr. yr."
who does the tobacco tax hurt? the little man thats who.We are not talking a few cents here.This ser ...[text shortened]... tts)is all coming down the pike.The people who will be hurt the most is the working stiff.

I understand that. I didn't mean to attack you; I'm sorry if it came off that way.

All I meant was that I thought he was referring to the income tax when he made the comment initially. I wasn't thinking of consumption taxes. But, technically, you are correct. It is a new tax on people making under $250k.

The comment about me not smoking was tongue-in-cheek.

I also wouldn't be surprised to see new state and federal taxes on alcohol, fattening foods, etc. In NY, you already can't serve foods with trans fats in restaurants. I don't have a major problem with these vice taxes if they're really necessary to raise revenue. I don't like the government trying to legislate behavior though.

Originally posted by utherpendragon
ok sh76,i am not gonna get in a pissing contest w/you.i respect your opinions and the way you carry your self.with that being said,i dont know "what he meant",all i know is what he said."no new tax what so ever on any one making under 250,000 pr. yr."
who does the tobacco tax hurt? the little man thats who.We are not talking a few cents here.This ser ...[text shortened]... tts)is all coming down the pike.The people who will be hurt the most is the working stiff.

Clinton raised taxes only on corporations and IIRC about the highest earning 1% or so of taxpayers, whilst giving most people a tax cut, i.e. progressive taxation. Obama has stated that he is planning to do something similar, and there's no reason he can't do that whilst bringing the deficit under control through increased taxes on the rich and corporations (including cracking down on corporate loopholes). So, there may be minor instances of small tax increases on tobacco or whatever but by and large Obama's framework is consistent.