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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Nov '14 06:04
    The purpose of this thread is to get some consensus on the definition of "right wing" and "left wing".

    Haha, just kidding, this is where there's a shouting match and lefties continue to abuse the term "right wing" and try to paint those that stand for peace and freedom of expression with the same 'right wing' coloured paint brush they use for neo-nazis and fascists.

    If you must resort to a dictionary, go for your life, employ whatever resources necessary, links to wikihow will receive the derision they deserve.

    The way I use the terms:

    Right Wing: Free market types but clamp down on personal freedoms (drugs, gay marriage abortion for eg)

    Left Wing: A cast iron grip on the economy, favour state control of properly private owned institutions, a little bit lose when it comes to personal freedoms.

    There's some scope for personal prejudices here, adjustments of scale, I would define the each of the two main parties in NZ, Aus and the US as Left.

    Many people would refer to NZ's National party, or Australia's LNP as right wing, but what they actually mean is, it's to the right of a very left Labour Party.

    Libertarians are neither left nor right wing they oppose the Right Wings restrictions on personal freedoms and they oppose they Left Wings restrictions on private economic transactions.
  2. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    01 Nov '14 06:58
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    The purpose of this thread is to get some consensus on the definition of "right wing" and "left wing".

    Haha, just kidding, this is where there's a shouting match and lefties continue to abuse the term "right wing" and try to paint those that stand for peace and freedom of expression with the same 'right wing' coloured paint brush they use for neo-nazis and ...[text shortened]... personal freedoms and they oppose they Left Wings restrictions on private economic transactions.
    If you believe that the political spectrum is
    one-dimensional they are useful terms. If not ...
  3. 01 Nov '14 07:39
    They are useful definitions for people who find the complexities of the world too much to handle.
  4. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Nov '14 08:11
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    If you believe that the political spectrum is
    one-dimensional they are useful terms. If not ...
    No, I don't believe the spectrum is one dimensional. But a simple two dimensional graph might still have a left versus right, totalitarian versus free layout.
  5. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Nov '14 08:12
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    They are useful definitions for people who find the complexities of the world too much to handle.
    You're so deep, your posts are 150 000 fathoms deep.
  6. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    01 Nov '14 09:21
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    No, I don't believe the spectrum is one dimensional. But a simple two dimensional graph might still have a left versus right, totalitarian versus free layout.
    Any dimensional graph can have one axis left-right.
    The problem with simplifying politics to right and left is that simple
    folk find themselves agreeing with a certain wing and then without
    thought align themselves with that "wing" for all subsequent debate.

    Why on earth should someone advocating right-wing fiscal policy be Christian,
    anti-abortion and anti-gay? Yet that is how political stereotypes work.
  7. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    01 Nov '14 09:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    Any dimensional graph can have one axis left-right.
    The problem with simplifying politics to right and left is that simple
    folk find themselves agreeing with a certain wing and then without
    thought align themselves with that "wing" for all subsequent debate.

    Why on earth should someone advocating right-wing fiscal policy be Christian,
    anti-abortion and anti-gay? Yet that is how political stereotypes work.
    I disagree, a two dimensional graph can have more than the one left right axis.

    Edit: A popular graph for measuring political positions has another vertical axis to indicate a scale of freedom versus control.

    Are you saying the terms , 'right wing' and 'left wing' are redundant, that there can be no definition?

    What defines right wing fiscal policy for you?

    The impetus for this thread was that 'right wing' is a term used frequently as a lable on this message board. If it's not a term you use you probably don't have much to contribute to this thread.
  8. 01 Nov '14 13:00
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    I disagree, a two dimensional graph can have more than the one left right axis.

    Edit: A popular graph for measuring political positions has another vertical axis to indicate a scale of freedom versus control.

    Are you saying the terms , 'right wing' and 'left wing' are redundant, that there can be no definition?

    What defines right wing fiscal policy ...[text shortened]... ge board. If it's not a term you use you probably don't have much to contribute to this thread.
    You might be referring to the "political compass." It is quite inadequate still, although more inclusive than the one-dimensional left-right spectrum. For what it's worth, the test gives me a position of -4,-4.
  9. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    01 Nov '14 13:36 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    I disagree, a two dimensional graph can have more than the one left right axis.

    Edit: A popular graph for measuring political positions has another vertical axis to indicate a scale of freedom versus control.

    Are you saying the terms , 'right wing' and 'left wing' are redundant, that there can be no definition?

    What defines right wing fiscal policy ...[text shortened]... ge board. If it's not a term you use you probably don't have much to contribute to this thread.
    Right wing refers to the most conservative side of an ideology, whereas the left wing refers to the most liberal side that is willing and wants to change the ideology.
  10. 01 Nov '14 13:49
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    The purpose of this thread is to get some consensus on the definition of "right wing" and "left wing".

    Haha, just kidding, this is where there's a shouting match and lefties continue to abuse the term "right wing" and try to paint those that stand for peace and freedom of expression with the same 'right wing' coloured paint brush they use for neo-nazis and ...[text shortened]... personal freedoms and they oppose they Left Wings restrictions on private economic transactions.
    It's simple really.

    If you are a left winger, then Hitler was a right winger because he did not take over industry by name. However, if you are a right winger, then Hitler was a left winger who proclaimed socialist ideas.

    Got it?

    In the end, both ideologies devolve into statism/collectivism. Pick your poison.
  11. 01 Nov '14 18:51
    "The left-right political spectrum is a system of classifying political positions, ideologies and parties. Left-wing politics and right-wing politics are often presented as opposed, although a particular individual or group may take a left-wing stance on one matter and a right-wing stance on another. In France, where the terms originated, the Left has been called "the party of movement" and the Right "the party of order."[1][2][3][4] The intermediate stance is called centrism and a person with such a position is a moderate."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics
  12. 02 Nov '14 19:53
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    The purpose of this thread is to get some consensus on the definition of "right wing" and "left wing".

    Haha, just kidding, this is where there's a shouting match and lefties continue to abuse the term "right wing" and try to paint those that stand for peace and freedom of expression with the same 'right wing' coloured paint brush they use for neo-nazis and ...[text shortened]... personal freedoms and they oppose they Left Wings restrictions on private economic transactions.
    You know that you can classify all people into two different groups.
  13. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    03 Nov '14 03:09
    Originally posted by Eladar
    You know that you can classify all people into two different groups.
    10 different groups:
    those that understand binary and those that don't.
  14. 03 Nov '14 04:16
    Originally posted by Eladar to Wajoma
    You know that you can classify all people into two different groups.
    People who belong in one of 'two different groups' and people who don't.
  15. Standard member shavixmir
    Guppy poo
    03 Nov '14 06:29
    Well, one of the problems with right/left wing is that it's a rough measurement within a society.
    For example: Tony Blair.
    In Europe we'd classify him as right wing. In the US they'd call him left wing.

    I believe the terms originated in the French revolution, where supporters of the king sat to his right and the revolusionists sat on his left in the assembly.

    So rhe usual interpretation isn't so much a dumming down of politics, but a general concept dividing a group into people who want to maintain the status quo (rigt wing) and people wanting to impliment change (left wing).

    Because comunists generally want change (because they're never in power), they 're generally classified left-wing.
    But in a communist party you'll have a left and right wing division as well.
    The right wingers want to stick to original doctrines (Maism, Marxism, Lenninism), the left-wingers will want to change the approach: generally towards a system which has a higher chance of implimentation...

    And this means that within the communist movement the left-wingers are more capitalist than the right-wingers.