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@averagejoe1 saidSo your problem is with taxes, which do exactly what you've described. Take it up with Uncle Sam.
Comprehension? Do you think your 2nd sentence above makes sense.?
Anyway, the crux of all this, if we were an island tribe and i gather 1000 coconuts for my family, YOU think you should be able to TAKE my earned coconuts and apply them to the COMMON GOOD, I might rather want to contribute them to fishermen to plug holes in their boats. Help local economy.
Vivify tax breaks are there to make it possible for failing businesses to be able to regroup and get the business up and running again.
Then give tax breaks to failing businesses, not people who want use them for yachts.
@averagejoe1 saidRack off Joe. it’s been made simple enough and your just refusing to recognise the truthful simplicity of it is all.
Keeping it simple: Correct, no one can work with their hands, maybe on an assembly line or raking a yard, to earn a yacht. Or to earn billions, as you say.
I guess the tweaking you speak of is the collection of taxes, a larger percentage from the wealthy than from the middle or lower class. Kev, that is already going on. To keep it all equitable.
I concur, "That d ...[text shortened]... usly, please expound. Maybe start a thread just on that, it would attract a whole lot of attention.
@chesstachio saidFree tuition means not same success. Of Course not everyone is able to obtain the same Degree, but why should some obtain a Degree just because their parents have Money whiel other who would be far more succesufl given the Chance would not obtain that Degree?
Then everyone cancels each other out in the workforce meathead.
How would anyone get ahead if we all have the same education?
@ponderable saidHe just doesn’t get how bad that is for society and the economy in particular. Having potential half wits out performing the clever ones simply because their parents had enough money to buy their place at a top college. It’s a degenerative system.
Free tuition means not same success. Of Course not everyone is able to obtain the same Degree, but why should some obtain a Degree just because their parents have Money whiel other who would be far more succesufl given the Chance would not obtain that Degree?
@earl-of-trumps saidMost people dislike Musk, not because he is rich, but because he’s an arsehole.
I should know better,
the man is an incredible businessman, has lots of money.
you don't really object if he works hard, but you have uber hate in your heart because he earns a lot of money
if it was not for hard workers, you'd have no home computer, no internet, no electricity.
jeeeeeezus you people have no tolerance for anything that isn't PC
@kevcvs57 saidBut have we not stipulated that life is not fair? Some people are born to rich parents, some people are not born to rich parents. I would like for you to clearly tell us how you would rectify such a situation. Should all of their money be put in one pot and then divided exactly in half? I think that is what you are proposing? Or, what, then?
He just doesn’t get how bad that is for society and the economy in particular. Having potential half wits out performing the clever ones simply because their parents had enough money to buy their place at a top college. It’s a degenerative system.
Is this when you say the rich family should (VIA govt taxes) fund tuition for the not-rich family? How in the world do you justify that? But what if the Rich family guy has been saving money to buy the yacht we keep speaking of? ....A goal he set 20 years ago. Do you deny him the yacht? Is that fair?
@shavixmir saidSo all you value someone by is how warm and cuddly they are, right?
Most people dislike Musk, not because he is rich, but because he’s an arsehole.
busy people get things done. Being popular often is not one of them.
@shavixmir saidYou make this a personal thread, about personalities? That should be over in the culture forum.
Most people dislike Musk, not because he is rich, but because he’s an arsehole.
Point is, Well, there are a lot of points, that an individual (Musk) Is making money like crazy, bringing a lot of people and employees along with him, and liberals really have a hard time accepting that. It’s called capitalism, and liberals want to get away from capitalism. Is that kinda like what we’re talking about here? I’m all for capitalism myself. Been working for 250 years.
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@quackquack saidNo it isn't.
It is ridiculous for student loans to be forgiven but not refund students who paid tuition out of pocket instead of getting loans.
Student loans are largely held by the government; students who pay out of pocket are paying the school directly. The government can't make the schools refund legally provided services, but they can choose to forgive government debts.
@vivify saidWow. So liberal-classic, sailed right over the comment, and said exactly nothing.
No it isn't.
Student loans are largely held by the government; students who pay out of pocket are paying the school directly. The government can't make the schools refund legally provided services, but they can choose to forgive government debts.
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@averagejoe1 saidYour fellow conservative made a comment based on his own lack of information. He thinks it would be unfair for government loans to be forgiven while those who pay out of pocket aren't refunded. He doesn't understand those are two completely different situations.
Wow. So liberal-classic, sailed right over the comment, and said exactly nothing.
People are given loans who need assistance with college; someone who can afford to pay out of pocket doesn't need government loan assistance, and wouldn't even receive that assistance in the first place.
Read that last sentence slowly. Then re-read it even more slowly. Because you consistently show an inability grasp simple explanations.
EDIT: and because I already know you're going to say it:
No, it's not fair that some people should pay for school, if loans are forgiven, and others won't. This is why liberals have pushed for free schooling, something conservatives have fought tooth-and nail to prevent.
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@vivify saidCut to the chase. If you and I go to college,,,,, I pay my tuition for one year. You borrow yours. At end of term, you do NOT have to pay your loan. So, I paid, with earned dollars, my tuition. You paid,,,well,, nothing.
Your fellow conservative made a comment based on his own lack of information. He thinks it would be unfair for government loans to be forgiven while those who pay out of pocket aren't refunded. He doesn't understand those are two completely different situations.
People are given loans who need assistance with college; someone who can afford to pay out of pocket doesn't ...[text shortened]... erals have pushed for free schooling, something conservatives have fought tooth-and nail to prevent.
Are we on the same page so far? Please yes or no, and then i will have a question.
EDIT: Let us agree that if you have borrowed it from a bank, and THEY forgave it (did not make you repay it), that is fine with me. The bank, and stockholders, lose on the deal. I dont care. But if you borrowed from the Government, and they do not make you pay it back, then that is a problem for ole AvJoe. You see, that money was money that I paid into the government. An important clarification. Do you know that Marauder said yesterday that the government would not be affected by forgiving the trillions in student loans? This is why we conservatives find you fellers entertaining.
@vivify saidYour solution is completely illogical. Those who made sacrifices to pay themselves get no benefit but those who made a promise to repay the government will have their deal undone and get their money back. For the government to use public money to help some people but not those equally deserving is simply abhorant.
No it isn't.
Student loans are largely held by the government; students who pay out of pocket are paying the school directly. The government can't make the schools refund legally provided services, but they can choose to forgive government debts.
@averagejoe1 saidI said no such thing.
Cut to the chase. If you and I go to college,,,,, I pay my tuition for one year. You borrow yours. At end of term, you do NOT have to pay your loan. So, I paid, with earned dollars, my tuition. You paid,,,well,, nothing.
Are we on the same page so far? Please yes or no, and then i will have a question.
EDIT: Let us agree that if you have borrowed it from a ...[text shortened]... giving the trillions in student loans? This is why we conservatives find you fellers entertaining.
I will say that government would be better off forgiving the loans, or at least the bulk of them. That is because it would be tantamount to an economic stimulus payment to (mostly) young people who are consumers:
""Home sales could be, say, 300,000 higher annually if people were not saddled with large student debt." Yun says that would be "a boost to the housing sector as well as the economy."
The effects would go beyond the housing market. William Foster is a vice president with Moody's, which just did a report on student debt forgiveness. "There've been some estimates that U.S. real GDP could be boosted on average by $86 billion to $108 billion per year," which is "quite a bit," he says. "That's if you had total loan forgiveness." Foster says it wouldn't have to be total forgiveness to see significant results. And he says it could also help address rising income inequality.
"Student loans are now contributing to what's perceived as lower economic prospects for younger Americans," Foster says. After all — millions of people are delaying homeownership. And that's the most powerful way for most working and middle class people to build wealth.
"A typical homeowner has net worth about $230,000, while a typical renter has only $5,000," Yun says."
https://www.npr.org/2019/11/25/782070151/forgiving-student-debt-would-boost-economy
The cost could be easily recovered by a small percentage tax on stock and other financial transactions (which add little to the economy as a whole).