16 May 22
@eintaluj saidA few points:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/14/ictk-m14.html?pk_campaign=newsletter&pk_kwd=wsws
* Please remove the first question mark in the link and everything that follows. (@everybody I am serious here!)
* If you (have to ) assume that people are not familiar with wsws (world socialist website) just note that, so people know.
Then take a central thesis:
The escalation now underway puts paid to NATO propaganda that it is simply defending innocent Ukraine from Russian aggression. The Kremlin did invade Ukraine in February 2022. But the NATO imperialist powers, exploiting the consequences of the Stalinist dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, are seizing on a conflict that they played the main role in provoking to try to drastically reshape world politics.
like this one and disucss the points. I was happy to see that the author actually agreed that Russia attacked the Ukraine in February...
A plus: If you can formulate a hypothesis on your own this would be gold.
@eintaluj saidBut I do not agree with the primary assumption that the US or anyone else is at war with Russia. Ukraine has been forced into being at war with Russia by virtue of Russian invasions into its sovereign territory, NATO is simply arming Ukraine in the hope that they can at the very least thwart any further expansionist actions by the Putin regime.
I urgently recommend reading this essay. Of course, you should leave out these compulsory mantras about the class struggle. Everything else is worthy of reading.
Pushing the idea that anyone is out to destroy Russia is simply repeating Putin’s threadbare excuse for his expansion westward into Ukraine.
16 May 22
@vivify saidIt is not my article. I am not the author of that article.
The moment you called the invasion on Ukraine a "US-Led war on Russia", your thread became worthless.
And this article does not call the Russian invasion of Ukraine a US-led war on Russia.
This article is worthy of reading, but you should skip it and read something that does not demand higher intellectual abilities.
16 May 22
@Ponderable
Largely, I do not grasp what you are talking about.
My opinion? - The article rightly says that Sweden's prime minister is wrong when assuming that belonging to NATO makes the security of Sweden greater. Russia considers NATO as a threat and, therefore, the probability arises that Russia is motivated to attack. But Russia has 6000 nuclear warheads, which was forgotten by the Swedish prime minister.
Russia's first reaction is to deploy nuclear weapons in Kaliningrad.
The article also says that NATO will make exercises in Estonia, with 15 000 soldiers, only 150 km away from Petersburg.
I do not have any hypotheses. I agree with the article's evaluation of the security situation in Europe: Sweden and Finland joining NATO makes the risk of the big war greater. I disagree with the WSWS rhythmic mantras about the class struggle, they are putting such sentences into impossible places, such sentences should be skipped when reading the article. I agree with the article's view about imperialism (note that the theory of imperialism was developed already before Marx).
16 May 22
@kevcvs57 saidDid you know that NATO is an innocent charity organisation?
But I do not agree with the primary assumption that the US or anyone else is at war with Russia. Ukraine has been forced into being at war with Russia by virtue of Russian invasions into its sovereign territory, NATO is simply arming Ukraine in the hope that they can at the very least thwart any further expansionist actions by the Putin regime.
Pushing the idea that anyone ...[text shortened]... estroy Russia is simply repeating Putin’s threadbare excuse for his expansion westward into Ukraine.
16 May 22
@eintaluj saidNATO is far from innocent or a charity ( well unless your an arms manufacturer) it just isn’t in the business of invading or attacking a nuclear armed state. No matter how often Putin or his cronies repeat the notion that he had to invade Ukraine because of NATO expansion it will never be true.
Did you know that NATO is an innocent charity organisation?
@kevcvs57 saidYou don’t think the West is fighting by proxy?
But I do not agree with the primary assumption that the US or anyone else is at war with Russia. Ukraine has been forced into being at war with Russia by virtue of Russian invasions into its sovereign territory, NATO is simply arming Ukraine in the hope that they can at the very least thwart any further expansionist actions by the Putin regime.
Pushing the idea that anyone ...[text shortened]... estroy Russia is simply repeating Putin’s threadbare excuse for his expansion westward into Ukraine.
@eintaluj saidYou blame the article for that illogical statement, yet you posted it anyway.
It is not my article. I am not the author of that article.
And this article does not call the Russian invasion of Ukraine a US-led war on Russia.
This article is worthy of reading, but you should skip it and read something that does not demand higher intellectual abilities.
Your "intellectual ability" so far is not impressive.
17 May 22
@shavixmir saidNo I think the west is arming a like minded country so it can stand a ‘fart in a thunderstorms’ chance of securing its continued existence in the face of a brutal assault by an overwhelming force.
You don’t think the West is fighting by proxy?
If Ukraine invaded Belorussian territory and NATO provided the arms for it to do so whilst Moscow supported and armed the Belorussians then I would call that a proxy war between NATO and Moscow but in the case of Ukraine it’s simply a case of supporting a non enemy against an entity that has made it perfectly clear that you are their enemy, for me this is a bit too direct and in each other’s faces to be a proxy war, we need another phrase for it.
17 May 22
@eintaluj saidYou might want to read the topic of this thread again.
It is not my article. I am not the author of that article.
And this article does not call the Russian invasion of Ukraine a US-led war on Russia.
This article is worthy of reading, but you should skip it and read something that does not demand higher intellectual abilities.
Someone wrote that.