25 Mar 05
4 edits
There are people lying in this Terri Schiavo case. That is certain. The question is "Who is lying ?"
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/20/102601.shtml
Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally
A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.
Heidi Law, a CNA at the Palm Gardens nursing home, testified:
"At least three times during any shift where I took care of Terri, I made sure to give Terri a wet washcloth filled with ice chips, to keep her mouth moistened. I personally saw her swallow the ice water and never saw her gag.
"[Another CNA] and I frequently put orange juice or apple juice in her washcloth to give her something nice to taste, which made her happy. On three or four occasions I personally fed Terri small mouthfuls of Jello, which she was able to swallow and enjoyed immensely."
Law testified that the only reason she didn't attempt to feed Ms. Schiavo more frequently was "because I was so afraid of being caught by Michael."
Editorializing on the case in light of Law's account, the Pittsburgh Post Gazette said Sunday, "It is one thing to withdraw a feeding tube; another entirely to withhold that day's meal tray."
Carla Sauer Iyer was a registered nurse at the same facility. In her own affidavit Iyer testified that Ms. Schiavo was capable of speech, explaining, "[Terri] spoke on a regular basis, saying such things as 'Mommy' and 'help me.'"
When she put a washcloth in Terri's hands to keep her fingers from curling together, Iyer said, "Michael saw it and made me take it out, saying that was therapy" that he had forbidden.
"Throughout my time at Palm Gardens, Michael Schiavo was focused on Terri's death," the RN noted. "Michael would say 'When is she going to die?' 'Has she died yet?' and 'When is that bitch gonna die?'"
Are these simply all lies ?
What is happening here ?
One thing is certain: There are people lying in the Terri Schiavo case and the question is "Who is lying?"
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by no1marauder
I have just found Judge Greer's Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law made after the trial in 2000 (I haven't even had a chance to read it yet). It is at:
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf
Was this nurse lying in 1997, no1 ?
What the **** is going on in this case ?
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeThere was no case in 1997, Ivanhoe, Michael did not ask the court to decide whether the feeding tube should be removed until 1998. Your source is incorrect at the very least. For a balanced look at the case by a Florida lawyer with links to ALL the court decisions, a timeline and discussion of frequently asked questions go to http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/infopage.html
Was this nurse lying in 1997, no1 ?
What the **** is going on in this case ?
Obviously what is going on in the right wing press is a disinformation campaign; no physician who has examined Terri in the last 15 years has claimed she could swallow.
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeIt would be nice Ivanhoe if you spent as much time doing something for the poor sods dying every day on the streets in the US as you do praying for this poor unfortunate woman.
Was this nurse lying in 1997, no1 ?
What the **** is going on in this case ?
I still remember visiting the capital of the most powerful nation on earth and seeing legless Vietnam vets lying on cardboard boxes asking for handouts in front of the White House...I thought this was pretty telling.
25 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeYou also should read your article; their was no affidavit in 1997; the affidavit was filed much later concerning what the nurse said happened in 1997:
Was this nurse lying in 1997, no1 ?
What the **** is going on in this case ?
Sunday, March 20, 2005 10:19 a.m. EST
Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally
A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on multiple occasions - but that husband Michael Schiavo would allow only a feeding tube.
I'm trying to find the document it was filed with and will get back when I do.
EDIT: These affidavits were filed in September 2003, years after the trial. They are available at http://www.terrisfight.net/.
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by no1marauderThis is the relevant protion from Judge Greer's ruling of Sept. 17, 2003:
I have just found Judge Greer's Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law made after the trial in 2000 (I haven't even had a chance to read it yet). It is at:
http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf
The remaining affidavits deal exclusively with events which allegedly occurred in the 1995-1997 time frame. The court feels constrained to discuss them. They are incredible to say the least. Ms. Iyer details what amounts to a 15-month cover-up which would include the staff of Palm Garden of Lago Convalescent Center, the Guardian of the Person, the Guardian ad Litem, the medical professionals, the police and, believe it or not, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler. Her affidavit clearly states that she would "call them (Mr. and Mrs. Schindler) anyway because I thought they should know about their daughter." The affidavit of Ms. Law speaks of Terri responding on a constant basis. Neither in the testimony nor in the medical records is there support for these affidavits as they purport to detail activities and responses of Terri Schiavo. It is impossible to believe that Mr. and Mrs. Schindler would not have subpoenaed Ms. Iyer for the January 2000 evidentiary hearing had she contacted them as her affidavit alleges.
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeFar be it for me to actually side with court rulings Ivanhoe, but 1.000.003 different courts and different judges have ruled that the woman's life can be ended.
There are people lying in this Terri Schiavo case. That is certain. The question is "Who is lying ?"
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/20/102601.shtml
Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally
A certified nursing assistant who cared for Terri Schiavo in 1997 filed a sworn affidavit in the case stating that she was able to feed Schiavo normally on mu ...[text shortened]... certain: There are people lying in the Terri Schiavo case and the question is "Who is lying?"
With all the garbage you keep digging up, you'd think the parent's lawyers would have made a better case, wouldn't you?
Well they didn't.
Do you know why?
Because it is so bloody obvious!
Geef het toch op man, ga kippen redden of zo!
25 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by ivanhoeHow does 1997 have any bearing on her medical condition now?
There are people lying in this Terri Schiavo case. That is certain. The question is "Who is lying ?"
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/3/20/102601.shtml
Nurse: Terri Can Eat Normally
A certified nursing assistant who care ...[text shortened]... ng in the Terri Schiavo case and the question is "Who is lying?"
Lots of people that could eat normally in 1997 are dead and buried now.
So what's your point?
25 Mar 05
3 edits
Originally posted by no1marauder
There was no case in 1997, Ivanhoe, Michael did not ask the court to decide whether the feeding tube should be removed until 1998. Your source is incorrect at the very least. For a balanced look at the case by a Florida lawyer w ...[text shortened]... examined Terri in the last 15 years has claimed she could swallow.
So, what about this sworn affidavit. Was this nurse lying ?
Is this affidavit a part of the "right wing disinformation" campaign ?
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by shavixmir
Far be it for me to actually side with court rulings Ivanhoe, but 1.000.003 different courts and different judges have ruled that the woman's life can be ended.
With all the garbage you keep digging up, you'd think the parent's lawyers would have made a better case, wouldn't you?
Well they didn't.
Do you know why?
Because it is so bloody obvious!
Geef het toch op man, ga kippen redden of zo!
Wat is er gebeurd met "Jouw rechtstaat is de mijne niet" ?
Het is prachtig om uitgerekend jou te zien optreden als 'n man van "law and order" ...... errug overtuigend is 't echter niet, Shavix.
Dat noemen we nog altijd "gelegenheidsredeneringen".
By the way, do you know the English translation of the latter ?
25 Mar 05
1 edit
Originally posted by bbarrSo, the nurse is lying. I wonder what drove her to do this. .... and in case she is not lying, I would like to know why Mr. and Mrs. Schindler didn't use her affidavit to support their case.
This is the relevant protion from Judge Greer's ruling of Sept. 17, 2003:
The remaining affidavits deal exclusively with events which allegedly occurred in the 1995-1997 time frame. The court feels constrained to discuss them. They are in ...[text shortened]... tiary hearing had she contacted them as her affidavit alleges.
Another question is why this women wasn't prosecuted for lying under oath.
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoe
Wat is er gebeurd met "Jouw rechtstaat is de mijne niet" ?
Het is prachtig om uitgerekend jou te zien optreden als 'n man van "law and order" ...... errug overtuigend is 't echter niet, Shavix.
Dat noemen we nog altijd "gelegenheidsredeneringen".
By the way, do you know the English translation of the latter ?
That is what we still call "occasion reasoning"?
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeSo, the nurse is lying. I wonder what drove her to do this
So, the nurse is lying. I wonder what drove her to do this. .... and in case she is not lying, I would like to know why Mr. and Mrs. Schindler didn't use her affidavit to support their case.
Another question is why this women wasn't prosecuted for lying under oath.
Probably the same thing that makes you constantly complain about the case and religious zealots to stage a vigil outside the hospital. Fanactism.
I would like to know why Mr. and Mrs. Schindler didn't use her affidavit to support their case.
They did. The affidavit was made in September 2003 and submitted in a motion to have Judge Greer overturn his prior rulings. His response to said affidavits is in Bbarr's post.
Another question is why this women wasn't prosecuted for lying under oath
It is almost unheard of for someone to be prosecuted in the United States for making false statements in a civil case. The courts here are clogged enough; I would say the use of false statements in civil cases is pretty routine and difficult to prove. Also criminal charges require evidence "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the statement is false; this is a pretty high standard, far higher than those used in civil cases. Finally, who gets prosecuted is decided by an elected district attorney; most of the politicians in Florida have consistently opposed the granting of Terri's wishes and so the local DA would probably be disinclined to prosecute such a case.
25 Mar 05
Originally posted by no1marauderNo1: "Probably the same thing that makes you constantly complain about the case and religious zealots to stage a vigil outside the hospital. Fanactism."
So, the nurse is lying. I wonder what drove her to do this
Probably the same thing that makes you constantly complain about the case and religious zealots to stage a vigil outside the hospital. Fanactism.
I would like to know why Mr. and Mrs. Schindler didn't use her affidavit to support their case.
They did. The affidavit was mad ...[text shortened]... g of Terri's wishes and so the local DA would probably be disinclined to prosecute such a case.
No1, I'm trying to refrain from any innuendo and insults regarding the Schiavo case. Maybe you could try and do the same.