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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    21 Sep '11 13:00
    Bill Clinton's recent interview brought up a very imporntant point that has been lost amid the masses of left and right wing TV talking heads. I don't have an exact quote, but President Clinton pointed out much of the blame for the gridlock and lack of progress our government has shown recently has to be shared by the American voting public. By reversing political course every 2 years, expecting instant gradification, and voting for a deeply divided government, the American voters have brought this gridlock upon themselves. Despite some minor reversals, Tea party members, Rank and File Republicans, Blue Dog and Liberal Democrats are simply carrying out the agenda's they were elected to do. The American voting public, by changing direction every 2 years needs to be held accountable for much of the lack of progress we see today.
  2. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    21 Sep '11 13:24
    Originally posted by bill718
    Bill Clinton's recent interview brought up a very imporntant point that has been lost amid the masses of left and right wing TV talking heads. I don't have an exact quote, but President Clinton pointed out much of the blame for the gridlock and lack of progress our government has shown recently has to be shared by the American voting public. By reversing pol ...[text shortened]... ion every 2 years needs to be held accountable for much of the lack of progress we see today.
    The oscillation indicates that what people really want is a Centrist party that avoids the extremes of either side -- but a third party can't easily establish itself under winner-takes-all voting systems like ours.

    People know what they want -- it just isn't being offered to them.
  3. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    21 Sep '11 13:37
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    The oscillation indicates that what people really want is a Centrist party that avoids the extremes of either side -- but a third party can't easily establish itself under winner-takes-all voting systems like ours.

    People know what they want -- it just isn't being offered to them.
    I want a party that is as far to the left as is possible.
  4. 21 Sep '11 13:44
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    The oscillation indicates that what people really want is a Centrist party that avoids the extremes of either side -- but a third party can't easily establish itself under winner-takes-all voting systems like ours.

    People know what they want -- it just isn't being offered to them.
    A third party wouldn't necessarily be "centrist". Two-party systems tend to produce parties that are very close to each other, as is the case in the US. So opening the system up to more parties will also make the Democrats and the GOP move further apart.
  5. 21 Sep '11 16:40
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I want a party that is as far to the left as is possible.
    Maybe you and Bernie Sanders should start a party.
  6. 21 Sep '11 16:47
    Originally posted by bill718
    Bill Clinton's recent interview brought up a very imporntant point that has been lost amid the masses of left and right wing TV talking heads. I don't have an exact quote, but President Clinton pointed out much of the blame for the gridlock and lack of progress our government has shown recently has to be shared by the American voting public. By reversing pol ...[text shortened]... ion every 2 years needs to be held accountable for much of the lack of progress we see today.
    Has it ever occured to you that gridlock may be the best thing that can be expected, and that is by design that we get it.
  7. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    22 Sep '11 00:35
    Originally posted by dryhump
    Maybe you and Bernie Sanders should start a party.
    Maybe Bernie Sander and I should start our own country.
  8. 22 Sep '11 01:04
    Originally posted by bill718
    Bill Clinton's recent interview brought up a very imporntant point that has been lost amid the masses of left and right wing TV talking heads. I don't have an exact quote, but President Clinton pointed out much of the blame for the gridlock and lack of progress our government has shown recently has to be shared by the American voting public. By reversing pol ...[text shortened]... ion every 2 years needs to be held accountable for much of the lack of progress we see today.
    I completely agree!!

    No, sorry, I changed my mind. What a bunch of bunk!!
  9. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    22 Sep '11 08:33
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Has it ever occured to you that gridlock may be the best thing that can be expected, and that is by design that we get it.
    I'm not 100% sure gridlock is the best that we can expect.
  10. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    22 Sep '11 11:37
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    A third party wouldn't necessarily be "centrist". Two-party systems tend to produce parties that are very close to each other, as is the case in the US. So opening the system up to more parties will also make the Democrats and the GOP move further apart.
    The more parties, the more they can specialize. So a larger party might tend to fracture into "extreme" splinters and larger, more centrist groups. But I think that separating the extremists leaves the main parties still more centrist and so drives them closer together.
  11. 22 Sep '11 13:13
    Originally posted by bill718
    Bill Clinton's recent interview brought up a very imporntant point that has been lost amid the masses of left and right wing TV talking heads. I don't have an exact quote, but President Clinton pointed out much of the blame for the gridlock and lack of progress our government has shown recently has to be shared by the American voting public. By reversing pol ...[text shortened]... ion every 2 years needs to be held accountable for much of the lack of progress we see today.
    The assertion that people collectively vote with the intention of dividing congress is bunk. Everything is done on a state by state basis. When I cast a vote in Michigan it doesn't affect what happens in California and vice versa.
    All of this is a design by the establishment to keep things the way they are and lay the blame on the American people. Bill Clinton is just another corrupt tool of the establishment who is working to fool you all into thinking it is your own fault when you voted in the midterm elections.
    Were things much different before the midterm elections? I don't recall much change before that either. Wasn't it the filibuster that was to blame before? Somebody remind me of why we had no real change before the midterm elections. My memory is a bit fuzzy.
  12. 22 Sep '11 14:09
    Originally posted by spruce112358
    The more parties, the more they can specialize. So a larger party might tend to fracture into "extreme" splinters and larger, more centrist groups. But I think that separating the extremists leaves the main parties still more centrist and so drives them closer together.
    It will drive them closer in terms of rhetoric, and willingness to cooperate. It will separate them in terms of policy.
  13. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    22 Sep '11 18:24
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    The assertion that people collectively vote with the intention of dividing congress is bunk. Everything is done on a state by state basis. When I cast a vote in Michigan it doesn't affect what happens in California and vice versa.
    All of this is a design by the establishment to keep things the way they are and lay the blame on the American people. Bill ...[text shortened]... emind me of why we had no real change before the midterm elections. My memory is a bit fuzzy.
    Metalbrain...I did not say people voted with the INTENTION of dividing Congress. It's simply worked out that way. it's also the major reason for our dysfunctional government.
  14. 23 Sep '11 15:33 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Maybe Bernie Sander and I should start our own country.
    Someone on here claimed that Rick Perry wanted Texas to secede. Maybe you could make a deal with him? As an aside, isn't is Sanders and not Sander?
  15. 24 Sep '11 05:40
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I want a party that is as far to the left as is possible.
    try Greece you looney tune....