https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/16/dont-fall-cuties-outrage-america-loves-exploiting-black-bodies/
America’s latest outrage against creative Black women who explore sexuality is about “Cuties,”
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-commentary/cuties-netflix-far-right-controversy-pedophilia-1057736/
How ‘Cuties’ Is Fueling the Far Right’s Obsession With Pedophilia
You can't possibly be serious.
Since when is concern over sexual exploitation of children a right/left issue?
Is this really happening? That condemning this movie equates to racism and sexism against black and female directors?
Tulsi Gabard, of all people was accused of promoting QAnon conspiracy theories by slamming this movie. How incredibly stupid. I haven't read through the current thread about "Cancel Netflix", and was starting to wonder why in the world that thread was now up to 400 posts. Is it really because this has become a right/left issue?
Liberals: when conservatives hate something, that doesn't automatically mean you have to take the opposite position.
I can't believe the reason this is getting so much attention is because Republicans and Democrats are bickering along party lines.
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@vivify saidCan someone tell us where liberals, who are more liberal than conservatives are, will draw the line on what is pornographic and what is not? How far do liberals go with letting it all hang out, regardless of who sees it?
Just to be clear: I don't know whether this movie exploits young girls or not, or whether the movie is in bad taste or not; but taking a position against this movie does NOT equal racism, sexism or anything else.
@Dendron
Maybe we should take the example of the French who views such things much more liberally than the US.
Nude beaches, check.
Mom breastfeeding in public, check.
Not worried about sexuality, gay or straight, they accept all of it.
Can you imagine that EVER happening here?
The US has MILLIONS of left over 18th century puritan ethic folks running amok giving us such people as 'pray away the gay reborn Christian, Pence'.
@vivify - That condemning this movie equates to racism and sexism against black and female directors?
C'mon, viv. That statement is RIDICULOUS!
I referred to the director of Cuties as "Monsieur" in the other cuties link and it was quickly
pointed out to me that the director was female. And I have no idea about skin color.
It seems you did the research that all liberals do, count black piggy toes and white piggy toes.
Vivify... you're better than this!!
This is multiple debates in one. Very difficult.
- is there a political divide in the US along which lines one judges 1 particular film?
- is there sexism and racism involved in the opinion?
- is it an American thing? Which includes that, say, Europeans have a different outlook on nudity (which may in part explain the political divide in the US).
- is it naked or nude (a long standing discussion on art: is it art or pornography)?
This is an interesting article on the latter:
https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20200917-the-fine-line-between-art-and-pornography
I think religion has a great deal of influence on the matter. Especially the religions which take holy books more literal: Islam, orthodox Judaism, Calvinism (including many branches of the Evangelical churches in the US).
These streams of religion are very conservative when it comes to nudity.
I think climate influences our concepts of it. Very hot climates automatically mean less clothes. Nobody really bathes naked in Scotland (obviously there are exceptions everywhere).
Culture influences our opinions on nudity and sexuality. In various US States neighbours being naked with each other’s 8 year olds is not a thing that is acceptable.
In Finland (and various other Northern European countries) - think of the sauna culture and within the European nudist communities it’s common place and not sexual at all.
It’s very hard for a conservative Christian republican from Texas to view 2 familes with pre-teen kids naked together in a sauna and not think it’s perverted.
Likewise, my mind boggles that women have to cover their arms when entering St. Peter’s in Rome or when I read that in some US States 14 year olds can be married.
Take the link from the BBC. There’s nude paintings in there. Take Waterman’s (the one with the nymphs: hangs in Manchester, by the way). I had a scale 1:1 high quality print of it hanging in my livingroom for 5 years. I think it’s absolutely stunning.
Not once did I look at it and get sexually excited.
Admittadly, at my age you’d need to tie me to a tower of power and whip me with pheasant feathers for an hour whilst dressed at princess Leia to get me excited (this is a joke... leave the pheasant on the dining table, thank you).
As with most discussion in the public arena at the moment (including on this site) debates polarize way too often and way too fast.
And that’s the real issue that should be addressed.
No light heartedness. No joking unless it’s sarcastic sniping. Name calling. A complete refusal to view a topic from a different point of view.
It’s why every topic in the US splits along political party lines.
It’s why something is either very good or evil.
And the whole truth of it all, is that in most cases most things are neither. They’re somewhere in the middle, huddled in grey.
Or they are both things at the same time.
So to reply to only the title of the thread:
The stupidity around Cuties is the entrenchment of opinion, rather than the movie or Netflix or the various opinions and feelings the movie obviously arouses.
@shavixmir saidThe issue with "Cuties" isn't merely nudity. The issue is those girls being sexualized. Haven't seen it but I know there are scenes that include a girl's pants being pulled down revealing her underwear and sexually provocative dancing from 11 year olds.
Culture influences our opinions on nudity and sexuality. In various US States neighbours being naked with each other’s 8 year olds is not a thing that is acceptable.
That's an entirely different matter from just nudity. The Blue Lagoon is mostly just nudity; Cuties apparently sexualizes them. This makes it an entirely different discussion.
That said: can a movie present children in sexual situations that are justifiable given the context and aim of the movie? Perhaps. Does Cuties fall into that category? Again, because I haven't seen it, I don't feel right judging if it has or not. All I can say is the descriptions of some scenes indicate gratuitous sexual depictions of those girls.
@vivify saidBeautiful post.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/09/16/dont-fall-cuties-outrage-america-loves-exploiting-black-bodies/
America’s latest outrage against creative Black women who explore sexuality is about “Cuties,”
https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-commentary/cuties-netflix-far-right-controversy-pedophilia-1057736/
[b]How ‘Cuties’ Is Fueling the Far Right ...[text shortened]... s is getting so much attention is because Republicans and Democrats are bickering along party lines.
I appreciate that.
I have even enjoyed pointing out how, to many people, this absolutely isn't a left/right issue, and it's bizarre to me that it is.
You don't film young girls in this way, and then you definitely shouldn't be seeing Netflix saying that they will host it. Even at one point lying to us by saying that the promotional poster was a misrepresentation of the film -- it wasn't.
@vivify saidIsn’t nudity sexualization?
The issue with "Cuties" isn't merely nudity. The issue is those girls being sexualized. Haven't seen it but I know there are scenes that include a girl's pants being pulled down revealing her underwear and sexually provocative dancing from 11 year olds.
That's an entirely different matter from just nudity. The Blue Lagoon is mostly just nudity; Cuties apparently sexual ...[text shortened]... l I can say is the descriptions of some scenes indicate gratuitous sexual depictions of those girls.
If you don’t want a meta discussion on the issue, why start a new topic which is exactly the same as the other thread?
But on the movie:
It’s about girls growing up. Their culture. Pop culture. The influence of internet. Poverty.
If you can’t see your entrenched views on it as entrenched, you’re wasting my time.
I’m not saying your views are wrong. But they are views, not some form of objective fact.
And I thought this thread was about that.
@vivify saidThey are not being sexualised, they are actors and unlike other examples cited in this thread there is no hint of paedophilic activity that is all in the imagination of its detractors.
The issue with "Cuties" isn't merely nudity. The issue is those girls being sexualized. Haven't seen it but I know there are scenes that include a girl's pants being pulled down revealing her underwear and sexually provocative dancing from 11 year olds.
That's an entirely different matter from just nudity. The Blue Lagoon is mostly just nudity; Cuties apparently sexual ...[text shortened]... l I can say is the descriptions of some scenes indicate gratuitous sexual depictions of those girls.
The characters in blue lagoon weren’t sexualising childhood? Really? Have you watched that film.
@shavixmir saidNot at all. I'm surprised you'd raise that question given your more laid back attitude toward nudity. I will say that humans are undeniably sexual beings, so whether we like it or not, nudity will be always be tied to sexuality in some way. That, in of itself, isn't a bad thing. Still, nudity and sexualization are two different things.
Isn’t nudity sexualization?
I’m not saying your views are wrong. But they are views, not some form of objective fact.
And I thought this thread was about that.
You had a lot to respond to that I didn't think I could address all in one post. I just wanted to make clear that no matter your views on this movie, sexuality, nudity and how it relates to children, it's wrong to dismiss concerns of child being sexually exploited as mere right-wing quackery.
Now, are my views on child sexuality entrenched? Absolutely. My views are a product of my own opinion and my environment.
@kevcvs57 saidI'll take your word for it.
They are not being sexualised, they are actors and unlike other examples cited in this thread there is no hint of paedophilic activity that is all in the imagination of its detractors.
The characters in blue lagoon weren’t sexualising childhood? Really? Have you watched that film.
I said "mostly" just nudity; there's a scene where the characters come of age and do what humans would naturally do in that situation, but for the most part, I didn't think that movie had any fetishistic elements.
@vivify saidNone of the children in the movie were sexually exploited. None were abused. They were all actors.
Not at all. I'm surprised you'd raise that question given your more laid back attitude toward nudity. I will say that humans are undeniably sexual beings, so whether we like it or not, nudity will be always be tied to sexuality in some way. That, in of itself, isn't a bad thing. Still, nudity and sexualization are two different things.
[b]I’m not saying your views are w ...[text shortened]... hild sexuality entrenched? Absolutely. My views are a product of my own opinion and my environment.
If children are on a movie set the parents are there, there’s a teacher there, the filming company has to have a whole set of permits, if it’s adult content (swearing, dancing like in this movie, etc.) they have to receive special permission and children actors are talked through scenes and monitored for signs of stress, etc.
Cuties was filmed in France (very strict labour laws) and there was also a psychologist monitoring the children.
Some people here seem to think filming is a shady business done in the attics of Alabama whore houses or something.
It was shot with union representation, EU laws, French labour laws, psychologists and the parents there.
You just don’t like the content. And that’s fine.
You can find the children behaviour sexy, but that says more about you than them.
You can’t honestly say the children were sexually exploited or abused.
@shavixmir saidI'm not saying the children were abused.
None of the children in the movie were sexually exploited. None were abused. They were all actors.
If children are on a movie set the parents are there, there’s a teacher there, the filming company has to have a whole set of permits, if it’s adult content (swearing, dancing like in this movie, etc.) they have to receive special permission and children actors are talked t ...[text shortened]... more about you than them.
You can’t honestly say the children were sexually exploited or abused.
I don't have any opinion on the movie itself, other than that it shouldn't be a left/right or Democrat/ Republican issue.