Originally posted by MerkAbsolutely not.
The incursions have been extremely limited since the breakout of the civil war.
So you're saying that you're not willing to consider it?
I know the Palestinian situation very well.
And the constant harrassment and aggression towards them is intolerable. The fear, poverty and death they are constantly forced to face is enough to drive any person berserk.
Originally posted by SeitseIn fact there is a funding involvement from the US, on the side of Fatah:
Into Israel... which is different than putting money into the factions
within Palestinian population to kill each other.
'The Bush administration will provide $86.4 million to strengthen security forces loyal to Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, as part of a plan to expand US involvement in Abbas's power struggle with Hamas.'
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E35C8A55-7B13-4443-84D3-BD76384CE426.htm
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeGood for them.
In fact there is a funding involvement from the US, on the side of Fatah:
'The Bush administration will provide $86.4 million to strengthen security forces loyal to Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, as part of a plan to expand US involvement in Abbas's power struggle with Hamas.'
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E35C8A55-7B13-4443-84D3-BD76384CE426.htm
So, what?
Are you telling me it's the U.S. fault that they like to kill everybody,
including their own people, in stupid and fanatical power struggles?
Originally posted by SeitseOf course he is. America gets denounced when it pulls it's money from Palestine, and we get denounced for putting money into Palestine. either way, we get blamed for something.
Good for them.
So, what?
Are you telling me it's the U.S. fault that they like to kill everybody,
including their own people, in stupid and fanatical power struggles?
Originally posted by shavixmirThe aggression toward and pressure on the smugglers den has been reduced since 05'. Why did the period of reduced pressure, not the period of greater pressure cause the civil war?
Absolutely not.
I know the Palestinian situation very well.
And the constant harrassment and aggression towards them is intolerable. The fear, poverty and death they are constantly forced to face is enough to drive any person berserk.
I'm in awe that you refuse to consider that the power vacuum is a contributing factor.
Originally posted by MerkI agree that power vacuums cause agression.
The aggression toward and pressure on the smugglers den has been reduced since 05'. Why did the period of reduced pressure, not the period of greater pressure cause the civil war?
I'm in awe that you refuse to consider that the power vacuum is a contributing factor.
it is the same effect in Iraq when factions are looking for power. It is common in history.
It is one of the reasons why the Israeli government continually has tried to undermine Palestinian leadership.
To say that Israel has left gaza alone is ridiculous.
Originally posted by MerkI don't disagree that a power vacuum can cause great strife. The situation in Palestine hasn't been that though. Israel has constantly put the pressure on (and so has the international community).
The aggression toward and pressure on the smugglers den has been reduced since 05'. Why did the period of reduced pressure, not the period of greater pressure cause the civil war?
I'm in awe that you refuse to consider that the power vacuum is a contributing factor.
Remember that Hamas is the democratically elected government!
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeDude, before jumping into conclusions regarding people, try to gather
I merely pointed out the fact that the US are funding one side of the conflict, relevant to Seitse's comment.
That you and Seitse see that as anti-American only tells us of your paranoid, insecure, 'the enemy is everywhere' attitudes.
some info or ask your less biased eBuddies...
Since I am not an American, I hardly can develop that paranoia... I am
pro Israeli (I've been called Zionist as well), so if I have a paranoia
then it is the paranoia that some nutcases in the Palestinian
terrotories keep blowing themselves and firing rockets into Israeli
territory, and are making it MORE hard for Israel and the Palestinians
to reach (finally) a two state solution with respect, dignity and peace.
When the terrorists stop damaging their own people in Palestinian
territory, I am sure (and hope) that two civilized parties can seat
once again and work towards that peace based on two independent
states.
Originally posted by shavixmirEither you don't understand Palestinian politics or you a choosing to ignore the fact that Hamas is not Palestines sole government. Mazen is still the President and if I am hearing things correctly, he dissolve parliament today so Hamas is in fact not "the government". They were part of the government.
I don't disagree that a power vacuum can cause great strife. The situation in Palestine hasn't been that though. Israel has constantly put the pressure on (and so has the international community).
Remember that Hamas is the democratically elected government!
Except for now in Hamastan, and that is through force, not democracy.
Originally posted by ElleEffSeeeAl-Jiz, as they always do when radical islamists are involve, only gives part of the story.
I merely pointed out the fact that the US are funding one side of the conflict, relevant to Seitse's comment.
That you and Seitse see that as anti-American only tells us of your paranoid, insecure, 'the enemy is everywhere' attitudes.
That money is for Mazens security forces not for Fatah in general. This money is to protect Mazen, not to destroy Hamas.
Notice that in this latest round of fighting in Gaza, Fatah took only defensive actions.
We are not finding offensive actions. Simply funding the Presidents security service.
Originally posted by petrosianpupilYou are correct in that Israel has not completely ignored Gaza, but the Israeli presence there is greatly reduced.
I agree that power vacuums cause agression.
it is the same effect in Iraq when factions are looking for power. It is common in history.
It is one of the reasons why the Israeli government continually has tried to undermine Palestinian leadership.
To say that Israel has left gaza alone is ridiculous.
Noticed that after Israel pulled out is when these problems got rolling, not before.
It sure looks to me like this is an internal fight that was on hold because of Israels presence and now can move forward in the void they've left behind.
I think to any reasonable observer, it looks like the PLO is not extreme enough for Hamas, so Hamas is going to try it their way. And with the PLOs inability to get a Palestinian state, I think an internal clash was clearly predictable.
What I don't get is how the left can consitently denounce America and Israel for trying to solve problems through force, yet just as consistently give the PLO, Hamas and Hezbullah a free pass. And recently give Lebanon the same free pass.
Originally posted by MerkIt seems to me that you don't understand the situation there.
Either you don't understand Palestinian politics or you a choosing to ignore the fact that Hamas is not Palestines sole government. .
Except for now in Hamastan, and that is through force, not democracy.
Hamas was the government and Abbas was the president, the figure head.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1181570271436&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Lol! Hamas is brilliant! The rest of the world could have told them a decade ago that the CIA has a great relationship with the PLO, they took part in peace negotiations for cryin out loud, but it looks like Hamas is just figuring it out.
Have fun Gazans! You're about to experience the logical extension of your genocidal mentality.
If any Gazans are reading this, please, get out while you can.