@earl-of-trumps saidThere are loads of vids of an event called Megavalanche a down hill cycle race. Compare the first 5 mins of the mens event versus the first 5 mins of the womans group. Mens group speeds of 75 kmh on the snow and ice 90% of the men stay on their bikes. Womans group 90% of them have fallen or are walking their bike down the hill.
CNN et al would be all over that, so I tend to doubt it.
@shavixmir saidMy solution is to have two divisions, one for male-bodied people and one for female bodied people.
What would be your solution?
To me it’s the only interesting debate on the trans-issue (toilets and things are non-issues whipped up by stupidity).*
And remember, trans people are humans too, so the solution has take their rights into consideration as well.
* actually, the rise in people coming out as trans sexual is another interesting topic, but that’s a core-issue and not so much an effects issue.
It's not discrimination because the trans persons are given a venue to compete,
@sh76 said"The simplest solution would simply be to change the name of women's athletics to "born women's athletics."
The simplest solution would simply be to change the same of women's athletics to "born women's athletics."
Even if trans women are really women (which, pre-op, is a very dubious assumption), nobody can dispute the proposition that it's not fair.
exactly
there is nothing in the law that says you can't do that
@sh76 saidSo, you would have a separate category for trans people? Is that what you’re saying?
The simplest solution would simply be to change the same of women's athletics to "born women's athletics."
Even if trans women are really women (which, pre-op, is a very dubious assumption), nobody can dispute the proposition that it's not fair.
@earl-of-trumps saidBut surely a trans person has the body they want. So a trans female would participate in the female division?
My solution is to have two divisions, one for male-bodied people and one for female bodied people.
It's not discrimination because the trans persons are given a venue to compete,
@shavixmir saidNo. Many trans people still have their original body.
But surely a trans person has the body they want. So a trans female would participate in the female division?
A transwoman still has a man's body and a man's DNA
@earl-of-trumps saidSo, your proposal is leagues based on DNA levels?
No. Many trans people still have their original body.
A transwoman still has a man's body and a man's DNA
@sh76 saidIt’s problematic for sure but I think the market will take care of it and you’ll get CIS female leagues springing up and sports bodies like the Olympics already regulate based on male hormone levels. There have been cases of CIS women being disqualified for having high testosterone levels.
The simplest solution would simply be to change the same of women's athletics to "born women's athletics."
Even if trans women are really women (which, pre-op, is a very dubious assumption), nobody can dispute the proposition that it's not fair.
Part of the problem is the monetisation of college sports in the US, it’s why sportsmen and sportswomen are being crippled by their twenties and younger. If someone wants to get outraged about something maybe start there.
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@earl-of-trumps saidMale DNA?🤔
No. Many trans people still have their original body.
A transwoman still has a man's body and a man's DNA
That’s why professional international sports bodies use hormone levels to gate keep women’s sports.
Is it ironic that the most outraged about this are those who are also most outraged about young trans people using hormone blockers to prepare for their transition and actually ban them from accessing them from medical professionals expert in the field.
But hey you want some addictive opiates to get you back on the pitch for a college football or basketball game, not a problem. The US is one sick puppy 🤮
@shavixmir saidDNA will be the same as "sex at birth".
So, your proposal is leagues based on DNA levels?
Yes, that is fair.
@earl-of-trumps saidYou find that fair. But people who have had sex changes will not.
DNA will be the same as "sex at birth".
Yes, that is fair.
As I’ve stated, I aknowledge the problem of trans athletes competing in female competitions, but if they’ve had sex changes and are for all intensive purposes female (whether you or I agree or not), they can hardly participate with male competitions (and shower afterwards).
So, banning them from female competitions is rather nasty. Which brings us back to the dilemma at hand.
To some extent it’s along the lines of:
- would you ban a blind person from playing in a chess tournament?
- would you ban a blind person from becoming a bus driver?
The escalation of prohibition is based not only on common sense, but also on the severity of potential outcome.
And sports… well… it ain’t exactly anything but people running around, throwing stuff or kicking dead bits of animal.
Would you say the consequences are more akin to a game of chess or driving a bus?
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@earl-of-trumps saidNo it’s not fair at all and of course it’s nonsensical
DNA will be the same as "sex at birth".
Yes, that is fair.
Males and females have the same DNA it’s just that men have less of it because de facto they are the result of a Y chromosome donated by the male. Which is, in effect and X chromosome with a leg missing
There is no DNA difference that has anything whatsoever to do with sporting ability. The only difference between male and female physiology is based on the endocrine system that controls what hormones are produced in each.
To use DNA testing would be like judging the performance of a car by its paint job.
Again that is why you cannot get outraged about young trans people using hormone blockers and then get outraged about trans women in sports who haven’t used hormone blockers early enough.
Make your outraged mind up
@wajoma saidActually Megavalanche is wide open for a transmans to put on a tutu a bit of make up and show the women how it's done. An average man will clean up in the womans event.
There are loads of vids of an event called Megavalanche a down hill cycle race. Compare the first 5 mins of the mens event versus the first 5 mins of the womans group. Mens group speeds of 75 kmh on the snow and ice 90% of the men stay on their bikes. Womans group 90% of them have fallen or are walking their bike down the hill.