I saw this news item and thought it'd fit right in on the debates forum here at Red Pawn.
It appears that the IOC has decided to allow transsexuals to compete in Olympic events. Under the new rules, somebody who had a sex change from a man to a woman can compete in women's events. The criteria are that the change in gender has been legally recognised and the individual has gone through at least two years of hormone therapy post-operation.
I just came across this news story on the web.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/olympics/2004/05/17/bc.oly.ioc.transsexuals.ap/index.html
I checked my calendar to see if it was April first, but no, that was a month and a half ago. This seems pretty bizarre to me at first sight. I'm all for equality, but I thought it seemed very unfair to female atheletes who were born female, as the transsexuals would have superior strength. But, according to this article, there are even precedents for this. Renee Richards (formerly Richard Raskin) played on the women's tennis tour as long ago as the 1970s, and one Michelle Dumaresq (formerly Michael) is a Canadian racing cyclist.
I haven't looked into this at all beyond confirming it on the IOC's website...
http://www.olympic.org/uk/news/olympic_news/full_story_uk.asp?id=841
Any thoughts? It's fascinating.
Originally posted by CaptainDangerousCertainly interesting.
I saw this news item and thought it'd fit right in on the debates forum here at Red Pawn.
It appears that the IOC has decided to allow transsexuals to compete in Olympic events. Under the new rules, somebody who had a sex change from a man to a woman can compete in women's events. The criteria are that the change in gender has been legally reco ...[text shortened]... ww.olympic.org/uk/news/olympic_news/full_story_uk.asp?id=841
Any thoughts? It's fascinating.
You say it is not fair that a man, who becomes a woman, can compete as a woman.
I can see your reasons, but the whole idea of changing sex is that a man becomes a woman and will be recognized as a woman and have the rights of a woman. What else would you suggest? Compete with the men? Sounds strange to me. Excluding from sport. Even stranger. I think IOC took the right decision.
Another way to solve the problem is to put men and women together at the Olympics. The end of all discrimination 😵
Fjord
Originally posted by CaptainDangerousWonder what will happen if a transexual wins a gold medal? There is a real gap between mens and womans athletic records.
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It appears that the IOC has decided to allow transsexuals to compete in Olympic events.
I don't think a few hormones and some cosmetic surgery completely changes your physical gender. Anyway, I thought all woman athletes were gender tested - by a DNA swab.
To me, a transexual can be considered a woman in some situations, a man in another.
Originally posted by fjordA nice idea, but you know what lengths some athletes will go to to win.
I can see your reasons, but the whole idea of changing sex is that a man becomes a woman and will be recognized as a woman and have the rights of a woman. What else would you suggest? Compete with the men? Sounds strange to me. Excluding from sport. Even stranger. I think IOC took the right decision.
Just you wait until every female event is won by an ex-male transexual.
Originally posted by VargThat is why I suggested to put men and women together.
A nice idea, but you know what lengths some athletes will go to to win.
Just you wait until every female event is won by an ex-male transexual.
I don't see the valid reason why we separate them.
The fact that men in general are better in (some) sports is a strange one.
We also could make differences, in athletics, depending on the length of their legs etc.
We also should abolish the differentiation in weight catagories in fighting and power sports. All that weird slimming just before the Olympics 😏
Fjord
Originally posted by fjordBut then women would rarely win.
That is why I suggested to put men and women together.
I don't see the valid reason why we separate them.
The fact that men in general are better in (some) sports is a strange one.
We also could make differences, in athletics, depending on the length of their legs etc.
We also should abolish the differentiation in weight catagories in fighting and power sports. All that weird slimming just before the Olympics 😏
Fjord
Much as we would like to think we are all equal, nature has cursed us with physiological differences.
Yes, I am sure there are many women who are faster/stronger/better swimmers, etc than me, but the best men in these events will be better than the best women. Sorry, it's a fact.
However, many sports don't rely on strength/stamina, etc.
Why should women be less good at golf, motor racing or chess?
Well, there isn't really any reason.
Originally posted by VargI am not denying that women in some sports will have less chance to reach the top. But so what? You still can keep statistics who is the best woman.
But then women would rarely win.
Much as we would like to think we are all equal, nature has cursed us with physiological differences.
Yes, I am sure there are many women who are faster/stronger/better swimmers, etc than me, but the best men in these events will be better than the best women. Sorry, it's a fact.
However, many sports don't rely on strength/ ...[text shortened]... should women be less good at golf, motor racing or chess?
Well, there isn't really any reason.
People with long legs run faster than people with short legs (I suppose). No reason to differentiate. Maybe the only exception we should make is in the beauty-contests 😀
Fjord
Originally posted by fjordWell, for similar reasons they have junior events too. To give people a chance to actually win an event rather than being 10th position and "best woman". And handicapped (or disabled events). What about team sports? Maybe wheelchair basketball players should mix it with the 7ft tall guys.
I am not denying that women in some sports will have less chance to reach the top. But so what? You still can keep statistics who is the best woman.
People with long legs run faster than people with short legs (I suppose). No reason to differentiate. Maybe the only exception we should make is in the beauty-contests 😀
Fjord
Anyway, with a limited number of runners on a track, maybe all the slots will be filled by men (steady!), and no women will qualify. What fun that'll be, all men Olympics. Women will have to have a sex change just to compete 😉
I agree with you on beauty contests though. I wouldn't want to see the male athletes in bikinis 😀
Originally posted by VargThat is exactly my point. We have passed the station that we should treat women as children.
Well, for similar reasons they have junior events too.
One of my daughters is playing football. Sometimes I go their and enjoy the game. I do not see why they couldn't play against a menclub of the same strength, I also cannot see why a team cannot be mixed. Sure it will take a while before the first woman will play in Arsenal or Manchester. But wouldn't it be great?
I am curious to hear what their own opinion is on this matter.
Fjord
It isn't as if the 5 sprinters for the USA are the only 5 available. There are hundreds of men in the US that are faster than the fastest woman in the wolrd. There would be almost no women in any track event. There would be almost no women in any swimming event. There isn't a woman alive that could make the US olympic team in any strength\speed based event.
Men are on average 50% heavier and twice as strong. That is nature, and women can't compete at that level. Golf also requires some strength, Anika Sorenson, the best female golfer in the world, didn't even make the cut in her men's debut. Chess, I can agree with you, heck Skeeter is the highest rated player on this site, but any sport that requires strength or speed needs to be seperated.
Originally posted by CaptainDangerousSince FIDE is affiliating with the IOC that opens up chess to transsexuals.
I saw this news item and thought it'd fit right in on the debates forum here at Red Pawn.
It appears that the IOC has decided to allow transsexuals to compete in Olympic events. Under the new rules, somebody who had a sex change from a man to a woman can compete in women's events. The criteria are that the change in gender has been legally reco ...[text shortened]... ww.olympic.org/uk/news/olympic_news/full_story_uk.asp?id=841
Any thoughts? It's fascinating.
In fact USCF has a policy concerning transsexuals playing in gender restricted chess tournaments.
Anybody know why?