Originally posted by @quackquack
Your ramblings don't change actual facts:
1. The overwhelming number of people charged with crimes, despite all the protections given, are subsequently convicted.
2. The overwhelming number of people convicted of crimes actually committed those crimes.
3. A disproportionate number of minorities commit crimes.
If we want change, then lets regardless that the real problem is simple: too much crime is committed.
I have no desire to change "actual facts." Instead I debate them as well as I can, checking the evidence and the reasoning. I find that the actual facts to which I draw your attention seem to provoke evasive responses because you have no desire at all to address actual facts. You just want me to accept the limited set of so called facts that fit your version of reality and you cannot tolerate being challenged about them.
Your three claims are pretty banal.
1. Have you checked out the "actual facts" about conviction rates? Here are a few. In the U.S. federal court system, the conviction rate rose from approximately 75 percent to approximately 85% between 1972 and 1992. For 2012, the US Department of Justice reported a 93% conviction rate. The conviction rate is also high in U.S. state courts. Coughlan writes, "In recent years, the conviction rate has averaged approximately 84% in Texas, 82% in California, 72% in New York, 67% in North Carolina, and 59% in Florida." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate
What conclusion do you draw from these very different conviction rates? Is this a simple issue for you when you see the "actual facts"? Are the actual facts a bit boring for you and too difficult to handle?
You have to consider disparities between White and Black people in every single step leading up to arrest and charge, including the choice of what crime to charge them with when there is a choice, as there very often is. Black people are more likely to be in areas that are heavily policed, more likely to encounter aggressive policing practices, more likely to be stopped, more likely to be searched, more likely to be arrested, more likely to have the more serious rather than the more lenient charge, etc. .... You have not begun to explore this territory.
Convictions do not always arise from a fair trial with a robust defence. A large proportion arise from guilty pleas, in the USA often through plea bargains, often without benefit of good legal advice, often under duress, while many enter trials without legal representation and without a competent defence. Good lawyers are not around for the poor.
2. The overwhelming number of people convicted of crimes actually committed them.
Many crimes are more likely to have Black than White defendants because of the way the laws are written. Black crimes are more likely to be subject to prosecution than predominantly White crimes.
Wrongful conviction rates are an issue you need to at least acknowledge. This is a huge topic in its own right. For example:
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/04/28/how-many-people-are-wrongly-convicted-researchers-do-the-math/
Even when guilty of a given crime, sentencing is discriminatory and there are huge disparities between Black and White defendents convicted of identical crimes.
Once in the prison system, administrative offences are given severe penalties without fair trials, and can hugely extend the time spent in prison.
3. A disproportionate number of minorities commit crime.
Well that is damned well inevitable don't you think under this regime.
The problem is not simple. For example, I am not making a simplistic claim, such as that Black people or minorities do not commit crime. You are failing even to establish what problem you think exists. Before there is a crime there has to be a law, and the law reflects the concerns and priorities and agendas of the politicians, Faced with a social problem, it is open to debate why the proposed solution even has to be to criminalise the problem and why locking humans in prisons for decades at a stretch is imagined to be a proportionate response, let alone a solution.
Take drugs. Why are there illegal drugs and legal ones? Why is it legal to sell tobacco, or alcohol, or to lace childrens' food with sugar? All are addictive and all cause health problems and behavioural problems. Why is the solution to "drugs" a criminal law solution, and not an education solution, a health service solution, a therapeutic solution, a welfare solution? Why is the problem the criminal and not the criminal law and the entire industry around that criminal system? Why does nobody act on what we all know - the "war on drugs" has been a social disaster and that is not the fault of all the people turned into criminals by that war on drugs who never need have been made into criminals to start with.
There is indeed a simple reason why the USA has so many criminals and so many prison places and so many slave workers in its prison industries. And that reason is not because too many minorities commit crimes. It is because the USA is manufacturing criminals and making a healthy profit out of their bodies and souls.
Trump pardons sherrife that arrested drug dealers
28 Aug '17 10:213 edits
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