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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 14 Jun '09 19:48
    Netanyahu is a jerk.

    The new proposed Palestinian "state" would have no military, no control over borders or airspace, regulated politics, acceptance of arbitrary Israeli invasion, and a forced recognition of the Likud. Looks like it's time for another puppet government!!
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Jun '09 00:39
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Netanyahu is a jerk.

    The new proposed Palestinian "state" would have no military, no control over borders or airspace, regulated politics, acceptance of arbitrary Israeli invasion, and a forced recognition of the Likud. Looks like it's time for another puppet government!!
    Duh.

    You make a proposal and then wait for a counteroffer. Then, hopefully, you meet somewhere in the middle and all parties get some of what they're after.

    Do you really think that this is Netanyahu's final offer?

    Do you really think he expects this offer to be accepted?

    Did you really think he was going to unilaterally concede everything the Palestinians want at the outset?



    Have you ever negotiated for anything?
  3. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    15 Jun '09 01:18
    Originally posted by sh76
    Duh.

    You make a proposal and then wait for a counteroffer. Then, hopefully, you meet somewhere in the middle and all parties get some of what they're after.

    Do you really think that this is Netanyahu's final offer?

    Do you really think he expects this offer to be accepted?

    Did you really think he was going to unilaterally concede everything the Palestinians want at the outset?



    Have you ever negotiated for anything?
    Netty: "I call on you, our Palestinian neighbors, and to the leadership of the Palestinian Authority: Let us begin peace negotiations immediately, without preconditions"

    Does this mean he'd meet with the leadership of Hamas?
  4. Standard member smw6869
    Granny
    15 Jun '09 01:24
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Netanyahu is a jerk.

    The new proposed Palestinian "state" would have no military, no control over borders or airspace, regulated politics, acceptance of arbitrary Israeli invasion, and a forced recognition of the Likud. Looks like it's time for another puppet government!!
    I vote Howdy Doody for President.

    GRANNY.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Jun '09 13:53
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Netty: "I call on you, our Palestinian neighbors, and to the leadership of the Palestinian Authority: Let us begin peace negotiations immediately, without preconditions"

    Does this mean he'd meet with the leadership of Hamas?
    Probably not immediately.

    But in the long run, it's probably inevitable. For better or for worse, Hamas is a factor and they can't be ignored forever. Besides, if a deal could be struck with Hamas, it would have more credibility than one struck while bypassing them. (Only Nixon could go to China)

    My guess is that the Israeli government, whether government by a left or right coalition, will eventually meet with Hamas, but they will want some doctrinal concessions from them in exchange (e.g., something like Hamas agreeing that it doesn't necessarily need Israel to be wiped out).

    Hamas' initial stance was that Israel has to be wiped out. Now they're at "Well, we can have peace for now if they give us everything we ask for in terms of a state and we'll wait until next generation to wipe them out."

    Netanyahu's initial stance was "no Palestinian state for now." Now it's, "Well, okay, yes Pal. state, but with no military and in many ways, at our mercy."

    Maybe they meet in the middle.

    It's a negotiation process. That's how negotiations work.
  6. 15 Jun '09 13:56
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Netty: "I call on you, our Palestinian neighbors, and to the leadership of the Palestinian Authority: Let us begin peace negotiations immediately, without preconditions"

    Does this mean he'd meet with the leadership of Hamas?
    Hamas has been willing to meet with Israeli leaders for a long time. I don't think it's what he means. I think he means more of the same running-around-acting-like-you're-doing-something with Fatah.
  7. 15 Jun '09 16:29
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Netanyahu is a jerk.

    The new proposed Palestinian "state" would have no military, no control over borders or airspace, regulated politics, acceptance of arbitrary Israeli invasion, and a forced recognition of the Likud. Looks like it's time for another puppet government!!
    Calling him a jerk won't make the situation better.

    Surely they'll come to terms, just wait and see what happens before judging the whole thing.
  8. 15 Jun '09 16:31
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Calling him a jerk won't make the situation better.

    Surely they'll come to terms, just wait and see what happens before judging the whole thing.
    It's really terrifying. Now would be a great time for Hezbollah to intervene!
  9. 15 Jun '09 17:09
    Originally posted by scherzo
    It's really terrifying. Now would be a great time for Hezbollah to intervene!
    yes, why wait if you can blow things up?
  10. 15 Jun '09 17:16
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    yes, why wait if you can blow things up?
    Nah, just a bit of pressure to let Israel know that the negotiations are in no way over.
  11. 15 Jun '09 17:19
    Originally posted by scherzo
    Nah, just a bit of pressure to let Israel know that the negotiations are in no way over.
    "Tell us what we wanna hear, or we'll start launching rockets" ?
  12. 15 Jun '09 17:19
    is Netanyahu trying to take advantage of perceived weakness in Obama?
  13. 15 Jun '09 17:24
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    is Netanyahu trying to take advantage of perceived weakness in Obama?
    possibly.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    15 Jun '09 17:30
    Originally posted by zeeblebot
    is Netanyahu trying to take advantage of perceived weakness in Obama?
    If by "take advantage of" you mean "start negotiations" and by "perceived weakness in Obama" you mean "act in what he perceives as the best interests of his county," then I'm sure the answer is yes.
  15. 15 Jun '09 17:32
    that doesn't quite pan out. just because the two statements could both be true does not mean they are identical.