@vivify saidIt could be just a formality, Viv. I can't fathom why Interpol and other countries would
As mentioned in the OP:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/chinese-government-hunting-uyghurs-world-help-surprising-countries-rcna24987
"Many of the Uyghurs in the database have been detained and sent back to China without being charged with a crime".
help the CCP secure such people, otherwise. It could be they will be charged formally when they get back to China.
But again, this is food for thought. I surely do not know,
@vivify said===Why do you focus only the the "re-education" part, but ignore the reports of torture, forced labor and being killed? Read the links, those atrocities are clearly laid out.===
If that was the only crime against the Uighurs, do you think I would've started this thread? I've clearly indicated, with links, that torture and murder have been reported regarding these camps, as well as all manner of other types of human rights abuses.
Why do you focus only the the "re-education" part, but ignore the reports of torture, forced labor and being killed? Read the links, those atrocities are clearly laid out.
Because the tortures and murders are isolated, or at least not systematic. There doesn't appear to be a wholesale plan to kill the Uyghurs in effect.
Possibly, I'll stipulate to the Chinese treatment of the Uyghurs as comparable to the Nazi treatment of Jews through May, 1941.
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@earl-of-trumps saidEven in China Uighurs are held without being formally charged:
It could be just a formality, Viv. I can't fathom why Interpol and other countries would
help the CCP secure such people, otherwise. It could be they will be charged formally when they get back to China.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/31/detention-of-uighurs-must-end-un-tells-china-amid-claims-of-mass-prison-camps
The UN panel said it was alarmed by “numerous reports of detention of large numbers of ethnic Uighurs and other Muslim minorities held incommunicado and often for long periods, without being charged or tried, under the pretext of countering terrorism and religious extremism”.
So it's unlikely that those Muslims, who are extradited with no charge of a crime, have any "real" charges once they're returned to China.
As far as "why"? China has deep pockets. Why else would Muslim countries help China capture Uighurs?
@sh76 saidHow many "isolated" murders and tortures would be needed before it's systematic? Regardless, multiple international organizations like Amnesty International have reported China is indeed systematically committing genocide:
Because the tortures and murders are isolated, or at least not systematic.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/new-details-torture-cover-ups-china-s-internment-camps-revealed-n1270014
@vivify saidSystematic means the goal is to kill them all, even if it's done in stages.
How many "isolated" murders and tortures would be needed before it's systematic? Regardless, multiple international organizations like Amnesty International have reported China is indeed systematically committing genocide:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/new-details-torture-cover-ups-china-s-internment-camps-revealed-n1270014
Genocide is a term generally applied these days (possibly incorrectly) to an attempt to destroy or displace a culture, not just to an attempt to murder the entire group.
Frankly, I think this has cheapened the term a bit.
@vivify saidVivify, China is not Western. Maybe they do not *publicly* charge people with terrorist crimes like the West does.
Even in China Uighurs are held without being formally charged:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/31/detention-of-uighurs-must-end-un-tells-china-amid-claims-of-mass-prison-camps
[quote]The UN panel said it was alarmed by “numerous reports of detention of large numbers of ethnic Uighurs and other Muslim minorities held incommunicado and often for long periods, wi ...[text shortened]... far as "why"? China has deep pockets. Why else would Muslim countries help China capture Uighurs?
Notice, too, these folks don't seem to get political asylum - and several countries are muslim,
which tells me that China has solid evidence against them.
Not to be forgotten is the Interpol. If they are cooperating with China, I would have to say
that these are criminal matters and China has their i's dotted and t's crossed.
That's how I see it,, Viv.
@athousandyoung saidAre you suggesting that the Japanese treatment of the Chinese was a holocaust?
Yeah, I can see how you might think that is a minor thing, but it’s kind of significant.
Now if we find evidence of a Unit 731 like atmosphere to these Chinese camps then I’ll agree with you but what these really are are forced assimilation camps. Not quite the same thing. More like the “Stolen Generations” of Australia.
@earl-of-trumps saidI can see no reason why interpol would be helping China round-up an ethnic group. Indeed, if this was so, it would be a massive international incident.
Vivify, China is not Western. Maybe they do not *publicly* charge people with terrorist crimes like the West does.
Notice, too, these folks don't seem to get political asylum - and several countries are muslim,
which tells me that China has solid evidence against them.
Not to be forgotten is the Interpol. If they are cooperating with China, I would have to say ...[text shortened]... e are criminal matters and China has their i's dotted and t's crossed.
That's how I see it,, Viv.
Is it possible they’re catching criminals who just happen to be Uighurs?
Although, even then, considering the Uighur situation in China, interpol should bloody well have their own i’s dotted and their t’s crossed, before even thinking about handing Uighur criminals to China.
Say it was Nazi Germany. Anf they had a warrant out for a Jewish psychopath. You’d still be bloody double-checking everything, just in case. Even the appearence of participation in the regime’s behaviour would be terrible bloody PR.
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@athousandyoung saidThey are sterilising the women in many cases.
Yeah, I can see how you might think that is a minor thing, but it’s kind of significant.
Now if we find evidence of a Unit 731 like atmosphere to these Chinese camps then I’ll agree with you but what these really are are forced assimilation camps. Not quite the same thing. More like the “Stolen Generations” of Australia.
There is smoke here, no real way of telling if there is any fire given how tightly China is locked down to foreign press.
I wouldn’t use the term “second holocaust” yet, but terms like cultural genocide wouldn’t be too strong based on what we know. Let’s hope we will never be justified in using the term ‘second holocaust’ but elements of actual genocide have been occurring across the globe on a regular basis.
@shavixmir saidIt was much closer to “the Holocaust” than anything the Chinese have been doing.
Are you suggesting that the Japanese treatment of the Chinese was a holocaust?
Literally of course a Holocaust is a pagan ritual whereby meat is burned in sacrifice to the Greek gods.
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@shavixmir saidwww.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/29/china-deportation-cyprus-uyghur/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Is it possible they’re catching criminals who just happen to be Uighurs?
Since 2014, China’s issuance of Interpol “red notices” — essentially, requests to police forces around the world to apprehend a suspect and send them to another jurisdiction — has increased dramatically from around 30 a year to more than 200 annually, according to figures published by Chinese media. The notices target not just allegedly corrupt officials and executives but also, according to reports, include political activists and ethnic Uyghurs or Tibetans who fled Chinese repression in their homelands.
@shavixmir said@Shav: "Is it possible they’re catching criminals who just happen to be Uighurs?"
I can see no reason why interpol would be helping China round-up an ethnic group. Indeed, if this was so, it would be a massive international incident.
Is it possible they’re catching criminals who just happen to be Uighurs?
Although, even then, considering the Uighur situation in China, interpol should bloody well have their own i’s dotted and their t’s crossed, befo ...[text shortened]... in case. Even the appearence of participation in the regime’s behaviour would be terrible bloody PR.
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That is what I have been saying all along. *Some* of these Muslim Uighurs are nasty terrorists.
And they are gathered up as that, not just because they are Uighurs.
And I agree with your Nazi Germany/ Jewish psychopath analogy
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@kevcvs57 says -
Let’s hope we will never be justified in using the term @second-holocaust’ but elements of actual genocide have been occurring across the globe on a regular basis.
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It's amazing how this term 'second holocaust has been used in this thread. And I bother to mention it because
almost half of Jews in Israel fear a second holocaust is coming. I got that in Jerusalem post.
@vivify saidThere ya go. So it appears that the CCP have their back side covered.
www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/04/29/china-deportation-cyprus-uyghur/+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=usSince 2014, China’s issuance of Interpol “red notices” — essentially, requests to police forces around the world to apprehend a suspect and send them to another jurisdiction — has increased dramatically from around 30 a year to more than 200 annually, according to figur ...[text shortened]... activists and ethnic Uyghurs or Tibetans who fled Chinese repression[/b] in their homelands.
But again, I am not taking sides here with China in this whole sordid affair