maybe they are the same there as they are here. mostly a waste of space. mine and ive been in 38years give very good speaches of what they want for there unionist but when the talk is over they spend the next year coming up with what to say next year. i have tried to get some action from them they turned up at the meeting with the managment and all i got was we will go away and look into this at every point. no prises for guessing what happened at next meetings they were busy.
The trend in Britain is for unions to join together in mergers, so we've lots more big, general unions.
I agree that stoker's experience is atypical - at the end of the day, the membership is the union. If you and your colleagues aren't happy, use the democratic process. If you think you can do a better job, stand for election.
Originally posted by scipio7777777The unions in the US did a pretty good job for a long time of forcing corporate management to address certain issues in the workplace. Lately I think unions have become ineffective mainly because workplace enviroments have gotten better and safer, and also because unions just don't seem to be doing a good job of getting their message out here. I never hear anything from union representatives in my area.
why are all the big unions in america splintering up so much?
are they tired of having their dues used to support the democrats? thats my theory
Of course some of this is simply that Americans tend to be fat, dumb and happy enough at work. When we get fed up we quit and go somewhere else. Whenever we can afford too that is. I kind of like that aspect of not being in a union.
Originally posted by scipio7777777Hmmm, then do you suppose that the unions are now fishing around for Republican unions?
why are all the big unions in america splintering up so much?
are they tired of having their dues used to support the democrats? thats my theory
Of course your theory would be backed up by some facts? Facts are usefull for comming up with theories. You don't have a thoery...you have a half assed I don't know what.
RTh
By all accounts the US worker has fewer vacation periods than ever, along with a stagnating mean wage and shrinking social insurance, so unions are more necessary than ever. The upshot of this appears to be an argument over federal union direction and whether the unions should focus more on recruiting the deunionized majority of the workforce or concentrate on retaining the tiny fiefdom they already have.
Originally posted by RedmikeYou're missing the point Mike, I'm better off without the union, to be a member and a wage earner I may get an overtime rate and other benefits but I would be worse off financially. This observation comes from 25 years work experience, approximately half of which was spent in a union. The rate I negotiate owes nothing to the union. The biggest improvements to work conditions come from increased prosperity not the union.
Part of the problem with this view is that, as a contractor, you're getting the benefit of the union anyway.
As the union pushes up the minimum rates, the whole 'market' moves up, including contractors.
If there were no unions, everyone would get shat on.
Originally posted by WajomaI can't speak for the arrangements in your country, and I don't know what industry you work in, but I can make some assumptions.
You're missing the point Mike, I'm better off without the union, to be a member and a wage earner I may get an overtime rate and other benefits but I would be worse off financially. This observation comes from 25 years work experience, approximately half of which was spent in a union. The rate I negotiate owes nothing to the union. The biggest improvements to work conditions come from increased prosperity not the union.
I assume that you do a job as a contractor which could also be done as a full-time, wage-earning employee. If that's the case, then it would be unusual if there wasn't a correlation between the full-timer rates and the contractor rates.
You say the rates you negotiate have nothing to do with the union. I think this can only be the case if this rate has no correlation with the 'employee' rate'. Exactly how do you negotiate your rate?
Sure, individuals can be financially better off being self-employed. In the UK economy though, this is balanced by the reduction in job security etc etc. Depends on your circumstances too. But we can't all be contractors.....
How does increased prosperity drive improvements in working conditions? It can only possibly be the other way round.
A tight labour market (low unemployment) drives improvements in working conditions and therefore increased prosperity. Is that what you mean?
Originally posted by WajomaTell that to the members of Solidarity in Poland circa 1990.
A poor country, low pay, bad conditions....union jumps up and down "we're going on strike, we're going on strike" nothing happens.
If there is little wealth it doesn't matter how much the union screeches.