Evidence that the US has better health care when the patient actually has health insurance? How about cancer survival rates?
Female:
US 62.3%
vs UK broken down by region:
England 52.7%
Wales 54.1%
Scotland 48%
Male
US 66.3%
vs UK broken down by region
England 44.8%
Wales 47.9%
Scotland 40.2%
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html
From what I understand England also has problems with wait times. While procedures would take place right away in the US, the people in the UK have to wait weeks or even months before they can get the procedures. Perhaps this wait period is one of the reasons why cancer survival rates are so low.
Originally posted by EladarThe fact that Scotland is part of the UK does skew the health statistics somewhat😛
Evidence that the US has better health care when the patient actually has health insurance? How about cancer survival rates?
Female:
US 62.3%
vs UK broken down by region:
England 52.7%
Wales 54.1%
Scotland 48%
Male
US 66.3%
vs UK broken down by region
England 44.8%
Wales 47.9%
Scotland 40.2%
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ ...[text shortened]... rocedures. Perhaps this wait period is one of the reasons why cancer survival rates are so low.
Originally posted by EladarI'm not sure how reliable that statistic is, since no source is given, but in any case you can see that the figure of the US is only slightly higher compared to Sweden, where there is universal free health care, so your argument that government-controlled health care leads to lower quality is still unvalid. Also, the undiagnosed aren't considered in the statistic, and since the poor can't get a diagnosis, this skews the statistics. (but apparently the lives of uninsured people are irrelevant to you, since you only want to consider the insured)
Evidence that the US has better health care when the patient actually has health insurance? How about cancer survival rates?
Female:
US 62.3%
vs UK broken down by region:
England 52.7%
Wales 54.1%
Scotland 48%
Male
US 66.3%
vs UK broken down by region
England 44.8%
Wales 47.9%
Scotland 40.2%
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ ...[text shortened]... rocedures. Perhaps this wait period is one of the reasons why cancer survival rates are so low.
Originally posted by EladarThe medical community in the US spends a lot of resources on cancer diagnosis and treatment, so these results aren't terribly surprising (if you happen to be black, your survival rates for all these cancers is 10% or more less, however).
Evidence that the US has better health care when the patient actually has health insurance? How about cancer survival rates?
Female:
US 62.3%
vs UK broken down by region:
England 52.7%
Wales 54.1%
Scotland 48%
Male
US 66.3%
vs UK broken down by region
England 44.8%
Wales 47.9%
Scotland 40.2%
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ ...[text shortened]... rocedures. Perhaps this wait period is one of the reasons why cancer survival rates are so low.
Looking at only one disease is cherry picking data to get to a predesired result. People dead of a heart attack are just as dead as those dying of cancer. The fact remains that US life expectancy trails virtually every other industrialized country.
Originally posted by no1marauderThe US stats include 30 million people without any health care and we still have the same life expectancy. When the US gets health care for all we'll probably live to be 100. I think the Brits are getting screwed.
It is proof positive that contrary to Eladar's baseless assertion, it is quite possible to get "decent health care" in the UK.
GRANNY.
Originally posted by no1marauderDo you really believe that if Barak Obama had cancer his chance of survival would be lower? The difference in survival breaks along socio-economic lines, not racial.
The medical community in the US spends a lot of resources on cancer diagnosis and treatment, so these results aren't terribly surprising (if you happen to be black, your survival rates for all these cancers is 10% or more less, however).
Looking at only one disease is cherry picking data to get to a predesired result. People dead of a ...[text shortened]... The fact remains that US life expectancy trails virtually every other industrialized country.
I didn't cherry pick. I just picked the first topic that came to mind. Although I didn't mention the time line for receiving treatments, I did mention that in the UK you will have to wait a longer period of time to receive treatment compared to the US. It takes months to get a knee replace in the UK, while in the US a patient can get a knee replacement in a much more timely manner.
Originally posted by smw6869Here is a list of life expectancy by country - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy - where do you think the U.S. with its superior health care ranks?
The US stats include 30 million people without any health care and we still have the same life expectancy. When the US gets health care for all we'll probably live to be 100. I think the Brits are getting screwed.
GRANNY.
45th, with most nations with socialized medicine ahead of us. For the money that I pay for health insurance, I want top 10.
Originally posted by CliffLandinGo back and read what he wrote. You are receiving top 10 health care.
Here is a list of life expectancy by country - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy - where do you think the U.S. with its superior health care ranks?
45th, with most nations with socialized medicine ahead of us. For the money that I pay for health insurance, I want top 10.
Originally posted by EladarWhat data supports your argument that only socio-economic differences matter? The disparity in the US between white and black death rates because of cancer are striking. http://www.statehealthfacts.org/comparetable.jsp?cat=2&ind=69
Do you really believe that if Barak Obama had cancer his chance of survival would be lower? The difference in survival breaks along socio-economic lines, not racial.
I didn't cherry pick. I just picked the first topic that came to mind. Although I didn't mention the time line for receiving treatments, I did mention that in the UK you will have to wait ...[text shortened]... in the UK, while in the US a patient can get a knee replacement in a much more timely manner.
Your assertions about treatment delays are noted, though you've presented no evidence to support your claims. Getting insurance approval for treatments isn't as slam dunk an affair as you imply as anybody who actually has private health insurance here can testify to (they like the being paid part, but the paying part? Not so much). At any rate, there are many people in the US who can't get any treatment for diseases at all as they earn too much for public health programs yet lack sufficient funds to pay for private health insurance. Should they just die if they have cancer or heart disease or any other serious malady?
Originally posted by EladarHe meaning Granny? People without health insurance still get treatment in the U.S. Just walk in to any hospital and half the people there will be uninsured. And just because Granny says it doesn't make it so. The statistics don't back her up.
Go back and read what he wrote. [b]You are receiving top 10 health care.[/b]
Originally posted by no1marauderBlack people don't get skin cancer. There's your 10%
The medical community in the US spends a lot of resources on cancer diagnosis and treatment, so these results aren't terribly surprising (if you happen to be black, your survival rates for all these cancers is 10% or more less, however).
Looking at only one disease is cherry picking data to get to a predesired result. People dead of a ...[text shortened]... The fact remains that US life expectancy trails virtually every other industrialized country.
Originally posted by CliffLandin"For the money that I pay for health insurance, I want top 10"
Here is a list of life expectancy by country - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy - where do you think the U.S. with its superior health care ranks?
45th, with most nations with socialized medicine ahead of us. For the money that I pay for health insurance, I want top 10.
Best ask Santa. You'd have a better chance. The uninsured will get some insurance (which is good), but you will most certainly get less. I'm willing to go along with this to help the poor. Are you? That's the way it will be.
GRANNY.
I've thought Granny is a guy.
In any case, I found this interesting:
The WHO judged a country's quality of health on life expectancy. But that's a lousy measure of a health-care system. Many things that cause premature death have nothing do with medical care. We have far more fatal transportation accidents than other countries. That's not a health-care problem.
Similarly, our homicide rate is 10 times higher than in the U.K., eight times higher than in France, and five times greater than in Canada.
When you adjust for these "fatal injury" rates, U.S. life expectancy is actually higher than in nearly every other industrialized nation.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/08/why_the_us_ranks_low_on_whos_h.html
I agree. How can average life expectancy be a judge of health care when deaths due to murder and accidents are included?
Originally posted by Thequ1ckAre you really that misinformed? Try doing some rudimentary research:
Black people don't get skin cancer. There's your 10%
Data from 1998 indicated that death rates for lung and bronchus cancer were higher for blacks and whites than for other races/ethnicities (Table 1). Death rates for black men were higher than for white men. Among men, death rates from lung and bronchus cancer decreased 1% to 2% per year for each race/ethnicity except AI/ANs. Among AI/ANs, death rates increased 1.7% per year among men and 2.9% per year among women. Death rates also increased for white and black women.
For 1998, death rates for colorectal cancer for each race/ethnicity were approximately 40% higher among men than women (Table 1). Blacks had the highest death rate for colorectal cancer, followed by whites. Death rates for colorectal cancer decreased 2.2% per year for white men and 1.8% per year for white women. Declines in death rates among black men and women were approximately 50% less than that for whites. Death rates for colorectal cancer increased 4.5% per year for AI/AN men, although the increase was not significant because of year-to-year variations in rates.
Death rates for prostate cancer were more than twice as high for blacks than for whites (Table 1). Rates were lowest among APIs. Death rates decreased for men of each race/ethnicity except AI/ANs (Table 1, Figure 1). The declines in death rates for whites (2.8% per year) and APIs (3.4% per year) were approximately twice the decreases for blacks, Hispanics, and AI/ANs.
Female breast cancer death rates were highest for blacks, followed by whites, Hispanics, AI/ANs, and APIs (Table 1). During 1990--1998, breast cancer-related death rates decreased for white (2.5% per year) and Hispanic (1.2% per year) women and were unchanged for black, AI/AN, and API women (Table 1, Figure 2).
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5103a1.htm
If you are looking for evidence that those without health insurance have lower survival rates and die earlier, try reading this:
Those without health insurance are more likely to have poorer health and die prematurely than those with insurance, the study found. Uninsured adults received fewer diagnostic and treatment services after traumatic injuries or heart attack, resulting in an increased risk of death even when in the hospital. People without insurance also more often go without cancer screening tests, delaying diagnosis and leading to premature death, the study concluded.
Those without insurance also do not receive care recommended for chronic diseases, like regular eye and foot exams to prevent blindness and amputation in persons with diabetes, and lack regular access to medications to manage conditions such as hypertension or HIV infection.
All told, the IOM study found, 18,314 people die each year because they lack preventative services, a timely diagnosis or appropriate care. This includes about 1,400 people with high blood pressure, 400 to 600 with breast cancer and 1,500 diagnosed with HIV. Odds are the number of deaths is even higher.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/may2002/ins-m25.shtml