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  1. Joined
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    04 Dec '16 16:202 edits
    I just looked specifically at Finland's education system and found a big difference with the US system in structure. The difference occurs after 9th grade.

    In Finland, after 9th grade, you must apply for and be accepted into secondary education schools. In the US you automatically get pushed into secondary education.

    In Finland only the selected move on to what we call High School.

    In Finland you have competition to give a student a reasin to learn. In Finland you do not require a square peg to be pushed through a round hole.

    Is your country more like the US system where everyone is moved through the system until they are 18? Or is your country more like Finland that reqires some sort of academic competence before entering secondary education?
  2. Standard memberRemoved
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    04 Dec '16 16:22
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I just looked specifically at Finland's education system and found a big difference with the US system in structure. The difference occurs after 9th grade.

    In Finland, after 9th grade, you must apply for and be accepted into secondary education schools. In the US you automatically get pushed into secondary education.

    In Finland only the selected move on ...[text shortened]... like Finland that reqires some sort of academic competence brfore entering secondary education?
    Not surprising thanks to liberal policies like no one loses. Every one gets a trophy!
  3. Joined
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    04 Dec '16 16:27
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Not surprising thanks to liberal policies like no one loses. Every one gets a trophy!
    It is specifically US liberal policy. Other nations are run by liberals but allow for competition and failure.
  4. Subscriberno1marauder
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    04 Dec '16 16:30
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I just looked specifically at Finland's education system and found a big difference with the US system in structure. The difference occurs after 9th grade.

    In Finland, after 9th grade, you must apply for and be accepted into secondary education schools. In the US you automatically get pushed into secondary education.

    In Finland only the selected move on ...[text shortened]... like Finland that reqires some sort of academic competence before entering secondary education?
    Seems like in Finland, like in the US, school enrollment is mandatory until 16 years of age:

    The compulsory educational system in Finland consists of a nine-year comprehensive school from 1st to 9th grade, from the ages of 7 to 16 (Finnish peruskoulu, Swedish grundskola, "basic school"😉, in which attendance is mandatory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland

    I guess we could learn a bit from that country though:

    Finland has had access to free universal daycare for children age eight months to five years in place since 1990, and a year of "preschool/kindergarten" at age six, since 1996. "Daycare" includes both full-day childcare centers and municipal playgrounds with adult supervision where parents can accompany the child. The municipality will also pay mothers to stay home and provide "home daycare" for the first three years, if she desires. In some cases this includes occasional visits from a careworker to see that the environment is appropriate.[13] The ratio of adults to children in local municipal childcare centers (either private but subsidized by local municipalities or paid for by municipalities with the help of grants from the central government) is, for children three years old and under: three adults (one teacher and two nurses) for every 12 pupils (or one-to-four); and, for children age three to six: three adults (one teacher and two nurses) for every 20 children (or circa one-to-seven). Payment, where applicable, is scaled to family income and ranges from free to about 200 euros a month maximum.[14] According to Pepa Ódena in these centers, "You are not taught, you learn. The children learn through playing. This philosophy is put into practice in all the schools we visited, in what the teachers say, and in all that one sees.
  5. Standard memberRemoved
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    04 Dec '16 16:30
    Originally posted by Eladar
    It is specifically US liberal policy. Other nations are run by liberals but allow for competition and failure.
    And I bet they have no "Affirmative Action". I think that is the one where lesser qualified get the job because of skin color?
  6. Subscriberno1marauder
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    04 Dec '16 16:33
    Originally posted by Eladar
    I just looked specifically at Finland's education system and found a big difference with the US system in structure. The difference occurs after 9th grade.

    In Finland, after 9th grade, you must apply for and be accepted into secondary education schools. In the US you automatically get pushed into secondary education.

    In Finland only the selected move on ...[text shortened]... like Finland that reqires some sort of academic competence before entering secondary education?
    The last sentence is wrong (again no surprise): only the academic upper schools are competitive and a majority of students get in:

    Upper secondary education begins at 16 or 17 and lasts three to four years (roughly corresponding to the last two years of American high school plus what in the USA would be a two-year Community or Junior College). It is not compulsory. Finnish upper secondary students may choose whether to undergo occupational training to develop vocational competence and/or to prepare them for a polytechnic institute or to enter an academic upper school focusing on preparation for university studies and post-graduate professional degrees in fields such as law, medicine, science, education, and the humanities. Admissions to academic upper schools are based on GPA, and in some cases academic tests and interviews. For example, during the year 2007, 51% of the age group were enrolled in the academic upper school.[27]
    The system is not rigid, however and vocational school graduates may formally qualify for university of applied sciences or, in some cases, university education; and academic secondary school graduates may enroll into vocational education programs.[28] It is also possible to attend both vocational and academic secondary schools at the same time. Tuition is free, and vocational and academic students are entitled to school health care and a free lunch.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
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    04 Dec '16 16:34
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    And I bet they have no "Affirmative Action". I think that is the one where lesser qualified get the job because of skin color?
    No, it's where individuals who are members of groups that have been victimized by invidious discrimination have that fact taken into account when considering their actual abilities.
  8. Standard memberRemoved
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    04 Dec '16 16:36
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    No, it's where individuals who are members of groups that have been victimized by invidious discrimination have that fact taken into account when considering their actual abilities.
    I bet that isn't difficult to do either.
  9. Joined
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    04 Dec '16 16:36
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    Not surprising thanks to liberal policies like no one loses. Every one gets a trophy!
    And a cry room w/teddy bears and coloring books. The pussification of America. Man up mfers.
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    04 Dec '16 16:39
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    I bet that isn't difficult to do either.
    More difficult than simply going along with invidious discrimination and/or rewarding it by accepting its pernicious results certainly. But sometimes doing what is right is "difficult".
  11. Joined
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    04 Dec '16 16:441 edit
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Seems like in Finland, like in the US, school enrollment is mandatory until 16 years of age:

    The compulsory educational system in Finland consists of a nine-year comprehensive school from 1st to 9th grade, from the ages of 7 to 16 (Finnish peruskoulu, Swedish grundskola, "basic school"😉, in which attendance is mandatory.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/w ...[text shortened]... into practice in all the schools we visited, in what the teachers say, and in all that one sees.
    Looks like only about half require 18 other states are either 16 or 17.

    My point remains....

    Is it an automatic for all students to enter academic secondary education?
  12. Joined
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    04 Dec '16 16:491 edit
    In Finland about half the kids make it into high school. Is that what your 51 percent is telling us?
  13. Germany
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    04 Dec '16 18:16
    Originally posted by Eladar
    Looks like only about half require 18 other states are either 16 or 17.

    My point remains....

    Is it an automatic for all students to enter academic secondary education?
    Those 49% of students who don't enroll in pre-university high school (2 years after the 4-year mandatory secondary education i.e. high school) typically don't want to go to university and instead prefer to do vocational training to do something more applied and less academically challenging. There's no point in teaching kids who want to be car mechanics stuff about complex analysis, a third foreign language or solving differential equations.
  14. Germany
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    04 Dec '16 18:19
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The last sentence is wrong (again no surprise): only the academic upper schools are competitive and a majority of students get in:

    Upper secondary education begins at 16 or 17 and lasts three to four years (roughly corresponding to the last two years of American high school plus what in the USA would be a two-year Community or Junior College). It is n ...[text shortened]... free, and vocational and academic students are entitled to school health care and a free lunch.
    I wouldn't say tuition is "free" - students get a monthly stipend as a gift plus various other benefits such as a discount on public transport, so effectively tuition is negative.
  15. Joined
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    04 Dec '16 18:50
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Those 49% of students who don't enroll in pre-university high school (2 years after the 4-year mandatory secondary education i.e. high school) typically don't want to go to university and instead prefer to do vocational training to do something more applied and less academically challenging. There's no point in teaching kids who want to be car me ...[text shortened]... hanics stuff about complex analysis, a third foreign language or solving differential equations.
    I am glad you see my point. In the US that is exactly what the government tries to do. Of course those kids have no interest in it so they disrupt classes they don't want to take but are forced into.

    Those same kids get tested and our ranking suffers.
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