Originally posted by Eladar That's the problem with socialism. If you hand a person something or force it upon them, it isn't appreciated and it leads to apathy and rejection. If you make someone earn it, then the person will appreciate it.
Take socialism out of the equation and bring in competition. At the core this is the problem in the US.
Your view of what Socialism is seems very alien to me. Americans seem to think it is intrinsically linked to liberalism and large government, which it isn't. You should come visit a northern town in England, lots of socialists not many liberals.
Originally posted by Eladar It is really the right way to go, to have different options.
Does the UK require application and acceptance to academic schooling after 16?
In Oklahoma we offer vocational education, 16-18, but only to kids with high enough academic achievement. If their academic achievement isn't high enough for vocational they get put into college prep classes.
The more options the better. In the UK there is too much emphasis on going to Uni. Now we have a nation where there are too many graduates and not enough graduate level jobs for them..at the same time we have a chronic shortage of skilled workers.
Originally posted by stellspalfie Your view of what Socialism is seems very alien to me. Americans seem to think it is intrinsically linked to liberalism and large government, which it isn't. You should come visit a northern town in England, lots of socialists not many liberals.
I think socialism is linked to generational poverty where people are raised on public assistance and teach their children to do the same.
I agree too much emphasis is placed on pushing kids to be paper pushers.
Originally posted by Eladar I think socialism is linked to generational poverty where people are raised on public assistance and teach their children to do the same.
I agree too much emphasis is placed on pushing kids to be paper pushers.
then you do not understand what socialism is. In a socialst country people who do not pull their weight and contribute would be frowned upon.
If you are talking about social democracies, capatalist countries that have left leaning, liberal, socialist tendanices then you only have to look at northern europe to see that public assistance and welfare does not create more dependancy. Its the lack of social mobility, education and jobs that creates dependancy.
Originally posted by stellspalfie then you do not understand what socialism is. In a socialst country people who do not pull their weight and contribute would be frowned upon.
If you are talking about social democracies, capatalist countries that have left leaning, liberal, socialist tendanices then you only have to look at northern europe to see that public assistance and welfare d ...[text shortened]... te more dependancy. Its the lack of social mobility, education and jobs that creates dependancy.
You know this first hand because you live in public housing and/or deal with government dependent people most days.
Originally posted by Eladar You know this first hand because you live in public housing and/or deal with government dependent people most days.
Or is this simply something that makes sense?
Statistics help. If you look at Northern Europe and Northern America you will see that despite the verying levels of support from the government they all have roughly the same levels of unemployment.
So it appears the levels of financial support do not have a large effect on the numbers who become dependent.
France has one of the higher levels of unemployment, but pays less in support.
Germany has low unemployment, but pays more in support.
The facts tell us something else is to blame. My personal opinion is that the key factor is education. Educate your workforce and they will feel empowered and motivated to be succesfull. Make your workforce feel like they have failed by age of 16 and they will be happy with failure for the rest of their life.
Originally posted by stellspalfie Statistics help. If you look at Northern Europe and Northern America you will see that despite the verying levels of support from the government they all have roughly the same levels of unemployment.
So it appears the levels of financial support do not have a large effect on the numbers who become dependent.
France has one of the higher levels of une ...[text shortened]... ke they have failed by age of 16 and they will be happy with failure for the rest of their life.
Originally posted by Eladar Welfare state and things like Social Security
but...but...I explained, those are not parts of socialism. A socialist system can operate with or without welfare and social security.....dear oh dear Eladar I thought we'd got past your misunderstanding of what socialism is...yet here we are, back to the start of the conversation. If you didn't believe me the first time around just say so, saves us going around in circles.
Originally posted by stellspalfie but...but...I explained, those are not parts of socialism. A socialist system can operate with or without welfare and social security.....dear oh dear Eladar I thought we'd got past your misunderstanding of what socialism is...yet here we are, back to the start of the conversation. If you didn't believe me the first time around just say so, saves us going around in circles.
Welfare and Social Security are part of a Socialized structure. True we are not a complete socialist state, we just have socialist policies in place.
Originally posted by Eladar Welfare and Social Security are part of a Socialized structure. True we are not a complete socialist state, we just have socialist policies in place.
as ive all ready pointed out they are not socialist policies. You can have a socialist country regardless if you have social welfare.
Socialism is about worker equality and shared ownership of the land, production and distribution of wealth.
Originally posted by stellspalfie as ive all ready pointed out they are not socialist policies. You can have a socialist country regardless if you have social welfare.
Socialism is about worker equality and shared ownership of the land, production and distribution of wealth.
US secondary education vs the world
07 Dec '16 23:43
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