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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    24 Jul '15 22:13
    RJHinds has surprisingly provoked me into a few moments of introspection.

    "Just celebrate your womanhood..."
    --RJHinds (23 July 2015)

    What an unexpected remark from RJHinds, who's well-known for his sexism.
    How should I celebrate? By marching in support of abortion rights or against rape?
    Or perhaps I could arrange some tampons In the shape of a V-sign!
    (I don't know any woman who rejoices over having her periods.)

    Personally, I don't quite understand the urgency of celebrating something
    that I was born into (why celebrate having blue eyes or brown?) unless
    I felt surprised at having survived long enough to reach this occasion.
    So I plan to celebrate my centennial birthday if I should get that far.

    In many Latin cultures, a girl's 15th birthday is celebrated as her Quinceanera,
    which apparently originated as a public occasion to declare her marriageability.
    But I'm no longer that young or waiting at the dock for that ship to arrive.

    "Every woman's different."
    --my mother (frequently said to me)

    Now I can understand why Caitlyn Jenner has been celebrating becoming
    a new woman. She's beginning to achieve something she's been longing for.
    And she's never had to include the price of tampons in her budget.
    She's never had to worry about walking alone at night in a threatening
    world that's full of men who are much bigger, stronger, and faster.
    Being a woman may have a different meaning for each individual woman.

    Of course, there are some useful advantages to being a woman.
    She could name a ship when it's being launched or be first in the queue
    for the lifeboats when another Titanic starts sinking. She also could
    seduce some men into buying expensive dinners for her. (private joke)

    "The grass always appears greener on the other side of the fence."
    With apparently mixed motives (envy, resentment, and something else),
    a friend said something like 'Just celebrate your womanhood' to me.
    He was terrified of being conscripted into the army and not coming back alive.
    (When victorious, this army has a reputation for raping conquered women.)
    He was envious that I would never have to worry about being conscripted.
    Knowing that young women like to be generous in their favours toward young
    men who are going away to war, perhaps for eternity, he urged me to
    'Enjoy being a woman!' and he yearned to enjoy me really being a woman
    that night. But I was not in love with him and could not make myself pretend.

    To sum up, I don't usually celebrate what I regard as a normal condition.
    I tend to celebrate only what's unexpected or some expected 'milestones'
    in my life, such as my 'first times' for marriage, divorce (joke), becoming
    a cashed-in heiress (dream), etc.

    Being a woman does have the convenience of not having to pose as a
    tough guy who could easily beat up every other man on the internet. 😉
  2. wherever I am needed
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    24 Jul '15 22:58
    Originally posted by Duchess64

    (I don't know any woman who rejoices over having her periods.)
    Actually, Duchess, I think you will agree, there are thousands of women over the world who celebrate their period

    Because it means that they haven't become pregnant that month. Be it for 'indulging' in unprotected sex or many other reasons.

    Agreed?
  3. Zugzwang
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    24 Jul '15 23:302 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64

    "Just celebrate your womanhood..."
    --RJHinds (23 July 2015)
    'Every woman's different', as my mother liked to say. For some lucky women, their
    periods seem no worse than a routine bearable inconvenience. For some other women,
    their periods are debilitating, traumatic, and might even have life-threatening complications.
    In 2013, a 14 year old Welsh girl suddenly died after using a tampon for the first time.

    I don't know any woman who rejoices over having her periods *as a matter of course* rather than on occasion.
    Obviously, having a period is preferable to an unwanted pregnancy or an abortion thereof.
    I know of no woman who enjoys the inconvenience, discomfort, and expense of her periods.

    Some religious traditions regard menstruation as the 'curse of Eve' Under Jewish law,
    a menstruating woman is regarded as unclean and a defiler of whatever she touches.
  4. wherever I am needed
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    24 Jul '15 23:342 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    'Every woman's different', as my mother liked to say. For some lucky women, their
    periods seem no worse than a routine bearable inconvenience. For some other women,
    their periods are debilitating, traumatic, and might even have life-threatening complications.
    In 2013, a 14 year old Welsh girl suddenly died after using a tampon for the first time.

    ...[text shortened]... Jewish law,
    a menstruating woman is regarded as unclean and a defiler of whatever she touches.
    I was merely pointing out how periodically (no pun intended) women may welcome their monthly period as a signal of 'non-pregnancy'

    Not a statement that any groups of women across the globe welcome this(approx) week long condition on a monthly basis

    You could just say 'Yes, StDP, you have highlighted a case in which women clearly WOULD 'welcome' their period'. then we can move on.

    but it's your thread...
  5. Standard memberRJHinds
    The Near Genius
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    24 Jul '15 23:59
    Originally posted by st dominics preview
    I was merely pointing out how periodically (no pun intended) women may welcome their monthly period as a signal of 'non-pregnancy'

    Not a statement that any groups of women across the globe welcome this(approx) week long condition on a monthly basis

    You could just say 'Yes, StDP, you have highlighted a case in which women clearly WOULD 'welcome' their period'. then we can move on.

    but it's your thread...
    Duchess64 seems to look at almost everything in a negative way. It's a shame.
  6. The Catbird's Seat
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    25 Jul '15 00:13
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    RJHinds has surprisingly provoked me into a few moments of introspection.

    "Just celebrate your womanhood..."
    --RJHinds (23 July 2015)

    What an unexpected remark from RJHinds, who's well-known for his sexism.
    How should I celebrate? By marching in support of abortion rights or against rape?
    Or perhaps I could arrange some tampons In the shape of a ...[text shortened]... not having to pose as a
    tough guy who could easily beat up every other man on the internet. 😉
    He was envious that I would never have to worry about being conscripted.

    When the equal right amendment was in play, and at first appeared to be sailing toward adoption, one of the things that slowed it down was women realizing that they might be drafted to military service, and sent to Vietnam.
  7. Zugzwang
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    25 Jul '15 00:30
    Originally posted by normbenign
    [b]He was envious that I would never have to worry about being conscripted.

    When the equal right amendment was in play, and at first appeared to be sailing toward adoption, one of the things that slowed it down was women realizing that they might be drafted to military service, and sent to Vietnam.[/b]
    Normbenign seems to have made another dubious historical argument.

    The ratification deadline for the Equal Rights Amendment was 22 March 1979.
    The Paris Peace Accords were signed on 27 January 1973, and the USA withdrew the
    overwhelming majority of its forces from Vietnam soon afterward. On 30 April 1975,
    Saigon 'fell to'' or was 'liberated by' (depending on your biases) the PAVN, and all the
    US forces had gone from Vietnam.

    So there was a period of from about four to six years to work for the ratification of ERA during
    which every American woman would have had no reason to be afraid of being conscripted
    and sent to Vietnam in a *non-combat role*.
  8. wherever I am needed
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    25 Jul '15 00:332 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Normbenign seems to have made another dubious historical argument.

    The ratification deadline for the Equal Rights Amendment was 22 March 1979.
    The Paris Peace Accords were signed on 27 January 1973, and the USA withdrew the
    overwhelming majority of its forces from Vietnam soon afterward. On 30 April 1975,
    Saigon 'fell to'' or was 'liberated by' (dep ...[text shortened]... ave had no reason to be afraid of being conscripted
    and sent to Vietnam in a *non-combat role*.
    my point seems to have been dismissed......

    c'est la vie!
  9. The Catbird's Seat
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    25 Jul '15 00:47
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Normbenign seems to have made another dubious historical argument.

    The ratification deadline for the Equal Rights Amendment was 22 March 1979.
    The Paris Peace Accords were signed on 27 January 1973, and the USA withdrew the
    overwhelming majority of its forces from Vietnam soon afterward. On 30 April 1975,
    Saigon 'fell to'' or was 'liberated by' (dep ...[text shortened]... ave had no reason to be afraid of being conscripted
    and sent to Vietnam in a *non-combat role*.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment

    In its form in 1972 it passed both Houses of Congress. By 1977 it had 35 of the required 38 State endorsements. Before the 1979 deadline, 5 States rescinded their approval. The draft and the Vietnam War were indeed front and center in people's minds from 1972 to 1979. There were many other areas where women's equal rights would have lost them traditional expectations of women. The longer the amendment lingered the more it lost support among the ladies.
  10. Zugzwang
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    25 Jul '15 00:49
    Originally posted by normbenign
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment

    In its form in 1972 it passed both Houses of Congress. By 1977 it had 35 of the required 38 State endorsements. Before the 1979 deadline, 5 States rescinded their approval. The draft and the Vietnam War were indeed front and center in people's minds from 1972 to 1979. There were many other areas whe ...[text shortened]... ectations of women. The longer the amendment lingered the more it lost support among the ladies.
    The Vietnam War had ended by April 1975, so there's no reason for Americans to worry
    about being sent to fight there afterward. I don't believe every sentence in Wikipedia.
  11. Standard membervivify
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    25 Jul '15 01:33
    Originally posted by normbenign
    [b]He was envious that I would never have to worry about being conscripted.

    When the equal right amendment was in play, and at first appeared to be sailing toward adoption, one of the things that slowed it down was women realizing that they might be drafted to military service, and sent to Vietnam.[/b]
    Women were still banned from combat roles. In fact, women had to fight the system in order to be allowed to fight in a combat role. This ban was lifted only two years ago.
  12. Standard memberRJHinds
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    25 Jul '15 06:351 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Rights_Amendment

    In its form in 1972 it passed both Houses of Congress. By 1977 it had 35 of the required 38 State endorsements. Before the 1979 deadline, 5 States rescinded their approval. The draft and the Vietnam War were indeed front and center in people's minds from 1972 to 1979. There were many other areas whe ...[text shortened]... ectations of women. The longer the amendment lingered the more it lost support among the ladies.
    The military draft ended in 1973, so I doubt the reason you gave was the main reason for equal rights failure. But I do remember some women and men voicing their concern about women being drafted into the military. Perhaps that had an effect on ending the draft, but probably not on the equal rights amendment.
  13. Joined
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    26 Jul '15 16:47
    The threat of a future draft might have been felt , at any rate it was one of the anti-ERA talking points:

    http://blogs.archives.gov/prologue/?p=13789

    quote:

    After 1973, however, a highly organized opposition to the ERA emerged, suggesting that ratification would prove to be detrimental to women.

    Opponents argued that passing the amendment would do away with protective laws like sexual assault and alimony, eliminate the tendency for mothers to receive child custody in a divorce case, and immediately make the all-male military draft unconstitutional.

    unquote

    One could argue with these points. Unless there is reliable polling information, we can only speculate on the weight these factors (and possibly others not mentioned) had.

    At the time, 30 of the 38 required states had ratified the amendment.
  14. Standard memberRJHinds
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    27 Jul '15 19:54
    Originally posted by JS357
    The threat of a future draft might have been felt , at any rate it was one of the anti-ERA talking points:

    http://blogs.archives.gov/prologue/?p=13789

    quote:

    After 1973, however, a highly organized opposition to the ERA emerged, suggesting that ratification would prove to be detrimental to women.

    Opponents argued that passing the amendment would do ...[text shortened]... ers not mentioned) had.

    At the time, 30 of the 38 required states had ratified the amendment.
    That could be it.
  15. The Catbird's Seat
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    27 Jul '15 23:47
    Originally posted by vivify
    Women were still banned from combat roles. In fact, women had to fight the system in order to be allowed to fight in a combat role. This ban was lifted only two years ago.
    I never claimed that was the only rational, but the statement of Duchess64' friend makes my point. The fact is that equality sometimes is a two edged sword.
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