18 Aug 20
Cornel West reacts to Biden/Harris ticket. Restates that he will vote for them because he has no other choice to get Trump out, but voting is not the same as not criticizing. Criticizing Biden/Harris is not supporting Trump as some ignorant people think.
Criticizing Biden/Harris is just observing the truth that they are bad and though they are needed to get rid of Trump, the fight continues after they are elected to push them to do the right thing.
18 Aug 20
@zahlanzi saidThere’s always good reason to criticise a politician but I think in the run up to an election it makes more sense to support your chosen lesser evil and keep the criticism for the day after Election Day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYA35wOaEP4
Cornel West reacts to Biden/Harris ticket. Restates that he will vote for them because he has no other choice to get Trump out, but voting is not the same as not criticizing. Criticizing Biden/Harris is not supporting Trump as some ignorant people think.
Criticizing Biden/Harris is just observing the truth that they are bad an ...[text shortened]... to get rid of Trump, the fight continues after they are elected to push them to do the right thing.
But no, voting for, is not the same as endorsing. I’ve never missed an election, always voted labour and I don’t think I’ve endorsed or agreed with any of them.
The uk model is more manifesto based and I don’t imagine anyone other than the authors have seen a manifesto that they support anything like wholeheartedly.
@zahlanzi saidIt a good point, but one which I thought was obvious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYA35wOaEP4
Cornel West reacts to Biden/Harris ticket. Restates that he will vote for them because he has no other choice to get Trump out, but voting is not the same as not criticizing. Criticizing Biden/Harris is not supporting Trump as some ignorant people think.
Criticizing Biden/Harris is just observing the truth that they are bad an ...[text shortened]... to get rid of Trump, the fight continues after they are elected to push them to do the right thing.
18 Aug 20
@divegeester saidDitto.
It a good point, but one which I thought was obvious.
Though in the highly charged, partisan US political war ... maybe not.
(Although ironically more true)
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@zahlanzi said"Criticizing Biden/Harris is just observing the truth that they are bad and though they are needed to get rid of Trump, the fight continues after they are elected to push them to do the right thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYA35wOaEP4
Cornel West reacts to Biden/Harris ticket. Restates that he will vote for them because he has no other choice to get Trump out, but voting is not the same as not criticizing. Criticizing Biden/Harris is not supporting Trump as some ignorant people think.
Criticizing Biden/Harris is just observing the truth that they are bad an ...[text shortened]... to get rid of Trump, the fight continues after they are elected to push them to do the right thing.
- Zahlanzi
I disagree.
Trump is bad!
Biden and Harris are just different. They cannot possibly be all things to all people. They are certainly imperfect. But they are not bad.
“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”
“It is compromise that prevents each set of reformers from crushing the group at the other end of the political spectrum.”
- John F. Kennedy, Profiles in Courage (1956)
As opposed to Conservatism's stubborn reluctance toward any form of compromise; Liberals should proudly note this reasonable course. Compromise is not a bad thing.
Would one teach one's own children against the values of compromise? Apparently, Fred Trump did and now look at the kind of human being he's produced.
Uncompromising Donald is the problem; not every issue of the Biden/Harris campaign with which we might disagree.
18 Aug 20
@kevcvs57 saidwhy?
There’s always good reason to criticise a politician but I think in the run up to an election it makes more sense to support your chosen lesser evil and keep the criticism for the day after Election Day.
But no, voting for, is not the same as endorsing. I’ve never missed an election, always voted labour and I don’t think I’ve endorsed or agreed with any of them.
The uk mod ...[text shortened]... anyone other than the authors have seen a manifesto that they support anything like wholeheartedly.
So they get the idea they don't have to move an inch towards your position to get your vote?
We're having a discourse and we will have it right until November. How do you envision this discourse? That we keep silent about the many flaws Biden has? That we start praising him whenever he makes a blunder? Whenever he flat out tells you he will do nothing or too little to improve the lives of the people he aims to lead?
18 Aug 20
@wolfe63 said"Biden and Harris are just different. They cannot possibly be all things to all people. They are certainly imperfect. But they are not bad."
"Criticizing Biden/Harris is just observing the truth that they are bad and though they are needed to get rid of Trump, the fight continues after they are elected to push them to do the right thing.
- Zahlanzi
I disagree.
Trump is bad!
Biden and Harris are just different. They cannot possibly be all things to all people. They are certainly imperfect. But they ...[text shortened]... ng Donald is the problem; not every issue of the Biden/Harris campaign with which we might disagree.
They are bad. If you don't offer solutions, if your only agenda is to defeat Trump, you are bad. It's true that this kind of bad is preferable to the trump kind but people will still die because of lack of healthcare, people will still barely survive on their wages, jobs will still leak to other countries, most likely wars will still continue to kill people. The planet won't get wrecked at the same rate as during 4 more years of Trump, but it will still get wrecked.
"“If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal.”"
Lovely phrasing. Little of it applies to Biden or Harris.
"As opposed to Conservatism's stubborn reluctance toward any form of compromise; Liberals should proudly note this reasonable course. Compromise is not a bad thing. "
Compromise is very much a bad thing if your idea of compromise is meeting in the middle. That the dems are too weak to fight for ideas so they continually ask republicans to come from their extreme positions from the right and meet at some point that is becoming more and more right each compromise.
If i want to stab you 10 times and you want me to stab you 0 times, the compromise is not me stabbing you only 5 times.
@zahlanzi said“ So they get the idea they don't have to move an inch towards your position to get your vote? ”
why?
So they get the idea they don't have to move an inch towards your position to get your vote?
We're having a discourse and we will have it right until November. How do you envision this discourse? That we keep silent about the many flaws Biden has? That we start praising him whenever he makes a blunder? Whenever he flat out tells you he will do nothing or too little to improve the lives of the people he aims to lead?
I can only see that being pertinent to floating voters and they’d probably want him to move to the right, he’s going to find it hard enough capturing the swing states without moving to the left.
Yes I do envisage Dem campaigners / supporters keeping silent about Biden’s many flaws, I expect them to be too busy pointing out and reminding swing voters of Trumps many flaws.
To you and me this election is interesting and important from an international perspective but actual US liberals, regardless of how left wing they’d like their candidate to be, have got a lot more at stake than us. There’s a very real chance that if they don’t close ranks and help their candidate pull in centrist swing voters they could end up with four more years of Trump.
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@zahlanzi saidIt seems like the view of a weakly principled coward to me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYA35wOaEP4
Cornel West reacts to Biden/Harris ticket. Restates that he will vote for them because he has no other choice to get Trump out, but voting is not the same as not criticizing. Criticizing Biden/Harris is not supporting Trump as some ignorant people think.
Criticizing Biden/Harris is just observing the truth that they are bad an ...[text shortened]... to get rid of Trump, the fight continues after they are elected to push them to do the right thing.
- Joined
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@kevcvs57 saidNo, if the constituents don't like what is offered...don't vote. Instead, have them lose in a landslide again and use that as leverage to demand change you actually deserve in your criminally corrupt internal democrat elections. Is is called tactics kevcvs57...I assume they are also missing from your chess game?
So you think people should vote for Trump because Biden is not left wing enough for them.
Sounds like the way of the weak minded to me.
18 Aug 20
@joe-shmo saidHaha yes excellent advice for Democrats from a Republican, don’t vote in this election thus forcing the DNC to field an unelectable candidate in four years time to go up against little missy Trump or Trump junior 👍
No, if the constituents don't like what is offered...don't vote. Instead, have them lose in a landslide again and use that as leverage to demand change you actually deserve in your criminally corrupt internal democrat elections.
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@kevcvs57 saidI'm not voting for an oligarchy. I would hope most people understand that is a bad route to go down. Also, you are already running garbage candidates that were chosen the your internally corrupt election system. Do you think that is going to magically dissolve on the off chance they win!?!
Haha yes excellent advice for Democrats from a Republican, don’t vote in this election thus forcing the DNC to field an unelectable candidate in four years time to go up against little missy Trump or Trump junior 👍
18 Aug 20
@kevcvs57 said"Yes I do envisage Dem campaigners / supporters keeping silent about Biden’s many flaws"
“ So they get the idea they don't have to move an inch towards your position to get your vote? ”
I can only see that being pertinent to floating voters and they’d probably want him to move to the right, he’s going to find it hard enough capturing the swing states without moving to the left.
Yes I do envisage Dem campaigners / supporters keeping silent about Biden’s many fl ...[text shortened]... help their candidate pull in centrist swing voters they could end up with four more years of Trump.
If Sanders would lie about Biden, he would lose instantly the respect of his followers. He would lose them even if he kept silent.
"I expect them to be too busy pointing out and reminding swing voters of Trumps many flaws."
As if they don't already know everything there is to know about Trump. The point is to convince those that would stay at home to vote for Biden. To acknowledge his flaws and offer a way past them. Sanders and West said it clearly, you pick Biden because the alternative is worse and you continue the fight afterwards by continuing to support progressive candidates against corporate democrats and republicans.
"There’s a very real chance that if they don’t close ranks and help their candidate pull in centrist swing voters they could end up with four more years of Trump."
Why the hell it's always "centrist" voters that need convincing. Who are these mythical centrist voters i keep hearing about? What are their beliefs and what do they want?
The ones that need convincing are the ones that look at the candidates and see nothing they like. The ones who would starve or lack healthcare under either of them. Not the republicans or conservative democrats in the suburbs.
They need to convince the ones who would stay at home because they don't care if US democracy goes belly up and they don't care about that simply because starving or not affording insulin is higher on their care list than who gets to appoint a judge to replace Ginsburg.