Was the USA Founded by Traitors?

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Does that mean rebels are never conservatives?

That all depends on how you define conservative. If you mean conservative as in someone who wants to hold to the status quo, then I suppose so. If you mean conservative as in the right end of the political spectrum, then no.

Originally posted by Eladar
That all depends on how you define conservative. If you mean conservative as in someone who wants to hold to the status quo, then I suppose so. If you mean conservative as in the right end of the political spectrum, then no.

Excellent answer. 🙂

It's also an easy target for the "changing the meaning of words" criticism.

Actually many of the founding fathers were against the early crys for independence. They made repeated calls on the king to understand the needs and unique circumstances that existed in early america. Only after being rebuffed did the colonists make a brave more to stand up against a tyrant regime.

The example these Patriots set should be examined by many people in oppressed countries today.

Everybody is a traitor in the eyes of somebody.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
What do you think?

The way I see it the Founders were rebelling against oppression. From their perspecitve, God has given us certain "freedoms" so when mankind tries to take them from us is it a God given obligation to fight such oppression. After all, if God gave us freedom who is man to take it from us?

Originally posted by whodey
The way I see it the Founders were rebelling against oppression. From their perspecitve, God has given us certain "freedoms" so when mankind tries to take them from us is it a God given obligation to fight such oppression. After all, if God gave us freedom who is man to take it from us?

Exactly. Rights are inalienable. Turning on a government that suppresses your rights is revolution, not treason.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
Was the USA Founded by Traitors? [...] What do you think?

When I cast my eyes back over world history and British history I feel that the American Revolution was a Good Thing.

I am, however, not so sure about the degree to which the colonial Americans were subject to "tyranny". It was certainly nothing compared to the kinds of "tyranny" that the Americans helped to visit upon whole nations around the world, for decades down through history, by way of puppets and proxies, in many cases dishing out brutality and injustice in a way largely indistinguishable from Communist tyrants, all for its own economic interests and regardless of its human toll.

Losers are traitors.

Winners are idealistic heroes who helped bring about the fantastic new order.

So, obviously, Washington was not a traitor.

If he'd lost, THEN he'd have been a traitor.

Originally posted by sh76
Losers are traitors. Winners are idealistic heroes who helped bring about the fantastic new order.

So, obviously, Washington was not a traitor. If he'd lost, THEN he'd have been a traitor.

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason.

i agree that through history America has made poor decisions at times......to say that in foriegn affairs America is driven by economic interests alone is pretty silly. I would say that most if not all the things we have done have been in the pursuit of freedom and justice....sure there have been situations that economics has been part of the equation...but i believe that to be a small part.

I know lots of people just hate to admit the the U.S. is really a compassionate country.... that has done far more good than bad... but its true...even at our worst we have only the best at heart.

Originally posted by highdraw
i agree that through history America has made poor decisions at times......to say that in foriegn affairs America is driven by economic interests alone is pretty silly. I would say that most if not all the things we have done have been in the pursuit of freedom and justice....sure there have been situations that economics has been part of the equation...bu ...[text shortened]... done far more good than bad... but its true...even at our worst we have only the best at heart.

OK, fair enough. Offer us up a list of compassionate dictatorships for whom the U.S.'s support was part of its "pursuit of freedom and justice".

Originally posted by FMF
OK, fair enough. Offer us up a list of compassionate dictatorships for whom the U.S.'s support was part of its "pursuit of freedom and justice".

But... but... World War Two! And... if it wasn't for us you'd all be speaking German and/or Russian!

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
But... but... World War Two! And... if it wasn't for us you'd all be speaking German and/or Russian!

We had thirty years of Soeharto here.

Originally posted by FMF
OK, fair enough. Offer us up a list of compassionate dictatorships for whom the U.S.'s support was part of its "pursuit of freedom and justice".

Margaret Thatcher?

compassionate dictatorships....see unfortunatly that doesn't compute for this American(I was going to say for Americans but as of late there are some in America who believe indictatorships)...... and I say this knowing that there probably are some people who could be "compassionate dictators"....but over time absolute power coruptes absolutly....I don't know if we should support fully a reqime who is not put there by the agreement of a free people that they would be governing