Specifically, we are seeing the death of the dishonest and totally inept Liberal Media.
Newsweek Magazine -- Michael Isikoff and John Berry are the latest contributors to the long deserved death of propaganda as news. In their hatred of Bush they made up a story that US people had "flushed a Quo'ran down a toilet". Now many people have died because the lie sparked a round of riot killings.
Newsweek has been caught in a lie. Now the big fish -- Evan Thomas has tried to cover up by quoting a guy who spent months at Guantanamo who TODAY supports this stupid report. Thomas says that "We can't substantiate this report, but just ask the guys who were there." UNFORTUNATELY FOR EVAN THOMAS, MANY PEOPLE DID ASK THE GUY LAST SEPTEMBER WHEN HE WAS RELEASED.
This is REPORTING? This is NEWS? Or is this just another nail in the coffin of lefty propaganda.
Too bad none of the guys from Newsweek bothered to check the several interviews of this guy Thomas decided to use today. He (the former Taliban propaganda facilitator) consistently said he had never been tortured nor seen or been subjected to any religious ridicule or mistreatment. Quite the opposite, he said in september when he was released and interviewed that he saw only respect of Islam. He was allowed to worship and nobody was persecuted in any way.
I wonder why he has now joined the propaganda model put forth by Newsweek? One might suppose that their motives toward the US are similar. Might they not?
We live in wonderful times. Evan Thomas followed up a horrible lie, NOT CORRECTING THE LIE, but tried to justify it into the future. Thank god for the internet. His lie was out for only a half hour before all the documented interviews of the guy Thomas used has showed Thomas and his Taliban cohort to be liars.
-- Michael Isikoff --
These dumb cowboys from Texas need to learn that what they say and what they do have terrible consequences in the real, grown up world. They need to think about what they are saying and how it makes us look in the eyes of the world.
The above is only THIS WEEKS lefy lie that has been caught. Below is just one example of Last Weeks lies and propaganda efforts by the lefties.
Last week Gloria Borger of CBS deliberately and in a calculated manner took a part from an interview with Ken Starr out of context in a deliberate left wing effort to propagandize the news.
http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2005/cyb20050512_extra.asp
How do we KNOW who is telling the truth in this dispute? Because CBS won't release the unedited parts of the sit-down and Starr just plain says that Borger is lying. Let's see the tapes. That would solve it (the argument) I think.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyLOL! Well, SVW, after all they are "liberals" so I guess it just makes sense that their rules of journalism are more liberal than truth will allow. Truth probably constricts their journalistic creativity.
The above is only THIS WEEKS lefy lie that has been caught. Below is just one example of Last Weeks lies and propaganda efforts by the lefties.
Last week Gloria Borger of CBS deliberately and in a calculated manner took a part from an interview with Ken Starr out of context in a deliberate left wing effort to propagandize the news.
http://www.mrc. ...[text shortened]... ain says that Borger is lying. Let's see the tapes. That would solve it (the argument) I think.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyThere are witnesses - military and detainees. After the succession of Amercian lies starting with the WMD lie which has used to invade Iraq, I see no reason to prefer one version of the truth over another.
Specifically, we are seeing the death of the dishonest and totally inept Liberal Media.
Newsweek Magazine -- Michael Isikoff and John Berry are the latest contributors to the long deserved death of propaganda as news. In their hatred of Bush they made up a story that US people had "flushed a Quo'ran down a toilet". Now many people have died becaus ...[text shortened]... They need to think about what they are saying and how it makes us look in the eyes of the world.
Both sides are liars.
Originally posted by steerpikeReally? Which side in the particular instances of this thread are lying? Can you point out the "anonymous, highly placed government source" used by Isikoff? Can you make Gloria Borcher and CBS show us the unedited interview with Star?
There are witnesses - military and detainees. After the succession of Amercian lies starting with the WMD lie which has used to invade Iraq, I see no reason to prefer one version of the truth over another.
Both sides are liars.
You can go read the interviews of all the prisoners released from Guantanamo. There was no mention of the Qu'ran thingy by any of them. Not a single one of them saw or heard of a "toilet flushing" until last week. Ain't that amazing?
I notice that you failed (again) to grasp that this thread is about the death of the lefty media. Not the war. Not Guantanamo. But then, once mind wiping takes effect, it is almost impossible to change the repeated conditioning of months and months of repetition and propaganda. Which is the second idea of this thread. Why we need to fight propaganda as news. Of all sorts.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyAll news is propaganda. Freedom is being able to choose which propaganda you personally want to argue about.
Really? Which side in the particular instances of this thread are lying? Can you point out the "anonymous, highly placed government source" used by Isikoff? Can you make Gloria Borcher and CBS show us the unedited interview with Star?
You can go read the interviews of all the prisoners released from Guantanamo. There was no mention of the Qu'ran t ...[text shortened]... Which is the second idea of this thread. Why we need to fight propaganda as news. Of all sorts.
Originally posted by StarValleyWyA typical SVW post; filled with lies, distortions and half-truths while he calls other people liars! Apparently the only thing that NEWSWEEK got wrong was that the allegation about flushing a Koran down the toilet was going to be included in a military report; a source told them this but that seems to be inaccurate. That the allegation has been made by released detainees is true and such allegations have been made by released detainees for a while.
Specifically, we are seeing the death of the dishonest and totally inept Liberal Media.
Newsweek Magazine -- Michael Isikoff and John Berry are the latest contributors to the long deserved death of propaganda as news. In their hatre ...[text shortened]... they are saying and how it makes us look in the eyes of the world.
NEWSWEEK was not the first to report allegations of desecrating the Qur'an. As early as last spring and summer, similar reports from released detainees started surfacing in British and Russian news reports, and in the Arab news agency Al-Jazeera; claims by other released detainees have been covered in other media since then.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7857407/site/newsweek/page/2/
Needless to say, US military reports are not known to be fountains of information which reflect badly on the military. SVW doesn't cite and I can find no article regarding Evan Thomas and a Taliban "propaganda facilitator"; it he will cite a source it could be checked, but SVW usually doesn't work that way. We have no way presently of determining whether the released detainees stories are true, but it would be foolish to dismiss their claims out of hand. Released prisoners from Abu Ghraib had said for months that they were mistreated and the military strenously denied it; only when the infamous pictures became public did the truth come out. Even then, the military has persistently claimed that it was just a few rogue MP's acting outside their orders when the evidence is strong that systemic mistreatment of prisoners has been used both in Iraq and Gitmo to attempt to get information. But you won't hear SVW talking about that truth.
Originally posted by no1maraudera few rogues "acting outside their orders" has been the one consistent claim from the US military regarding human rights abuses going back more than 200 years.
Even then, the military has persistently claimed that it was just a few rogue MP's acting outside their orders when the evidence is strong that systemic mistreatment of prisoners has been used both in Iraq and Gitmo to attempt to get information. But you won't hear SVW talking about that truth.
From Star Valley, Wyoming, SVW could look to the south, to the east, to the north, and to the west, and in each case find a site half a day's drive where US soldiers were "acting outside their orders" when they abused people they considered less human than themselves. There was nothing new or out of the ordinary at Abu Ghraib.
If SVW would have us believe the interrogators at Guantanamo are dealing with the prisoners only with utmost respect for the Qur'an and Islam, then he would be suggesting a truly momentous historic development.
You've got to move pretty far to the right to perceive the mass media in America as liberal. It may be true that the media has become so, but the problem is not rooted in journalism (unless it stems from their failures to inform Americans about the state of the world; only within our bubble of ignorance can neo-conservatism thrive).
When has the U.S. had Human Rights abuses that have gone unpunished? It hardly ever happens (i can only think of 2 times) and for each of those the troops percipitating the acts were duly punished.
The U.S. has a history of stopping Human Rights abusers not of being abusers themselves. Where do you come up with this stuff.
Originally posted by scipio7777777Sand Creek, Wounded Knee, Marias River, My Lai (okay, one was punished), Chile (oh, that's just an allegation), El Salvador and Nicaragua (was Ollie North punished, did our participation in killing civilians even aarise in the investigations?).
When has the U.S. had Human Rights abuses that have gone unpunished? It hardly ever happens (i can only think of 2 times) and for each of those the troops percipitating the acts were duly punished.
The U.S. has a history of stopping Human Rights abusers not of being abusers themselves. Where do you come up with this stuff.
Where do I come up with this stuff? I'm a professional historian; I do it for a living. But I don't seek out abuses; rather, they ambush me at every turn.
Originally posted by no1marauderWe need look no further than your delight at the damage done to your nation in trying to understand why Newsweek and the other elite media chooses to rely exclusively on the propaganda of our enemy and not at all on the word of our soldiers.
A typical SVW post; filled with lies, distortions and half-truths while he calls other people liars! Apparently the only thing that NEWSWEEK got wrong was that the allegation about flushing a Koran down the toilet was going to ...[text shortened]... get information. But you won't hear SVW talking about that truth.
Who gave the prisoners at GITMO their copy of the Quran? Who did it with gloved hands? Knowing that to be touched by an infadel is a desecration of this sacred book? Who gets the blessing and seal of a mullah on each plastic wrapped copy of the Quran that is handed out to all prisoners who desire one? Who provides the special diets required of the prisoners religion? Who has to attend a forty hour course on sensitivity training toward Islam?
The US Soldiers at GITMO. That's who. Why would they treat Islam with such respect and then desecrate it as the enemies of the US (such as numberzero) say? It doesn't follow. Does it?
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Who imprisons people without a jury or a lawyer - your troops
who treat them like animals (england and so) - your troops
who lied the whole world going into iraq for weapons instead of oil - your government your troops are working for.
Who killed innocent people in the iraq your troops
Any questions ? No thank you. Sit down and relax.
By the way ? What if the whole article is right and your state just put the pressure on the British and this media ? Maybe through bankers who hold resonable shares of Newsweek. What if information has just gone and whitnesses couldn´t remember cause their families are treathed by your soldiers/government/the CIA ? Think about that before telling everybody to love his kidnapper cause that is what your troops in this prisons are.
Peace !
Originally posted by StarValleyWySir, I take no delight at damage done to my nation. Nor can I find any rule to measure the damage caused by Newsweek when I hold the rule for measuring the damage to these United States by the Bush administration. The rule lacks gradations fine enough for this hasty news allegation.
We need look no further than your delight at the damage ...
Who gave the prisoners at GITMO their copy of the Quran? ...
Who has to attend a forty hour course on sensitivity training toward Islam? ... Why would they treat Islam with such respect and then desecrate it ... It doesn't follow. Does it?
The soldiers at GITMO are many with various jobs. I would be surprised if those handing out religious texts are the same individuals conducting the interrogations, as such deviates from the normal processes and procedures employed by the U.S. military. When my brother was a chaplain assistant, for example, he handed out bibles and other religious texts; he did not interrogate the prisoners.
Forty hour courses in sensitivity training provide minimal information, and they are not always welcome by those required to attend. Having taught similar courses since the late 1980s, I can attest that hostility to the course, the instructor, and towards the subject matter is all too common. Of course, many welcome the information; but, many resent it.
Those forced to endure such training, it seems to me, may well be highly motivated to desecrate the Qur'an, especially if they are recieving pressure from above to extract information from the prisoners.
We do not know whether such heinous behaviors occurred, but they are not surprising. [i]Newsweek[i] should have been more careful, but the damage they are alleged to have caused is no where near the scale of damage inflicted upon America by George W. Bush.
Originally posted by WulebgrWe will just have to disagree on Bush. I think he is doing a good job.
Sir, I take no delight at damage done to my nation. Nor can I find any rule to measure the damage caused by Newsweek when I hold the rule for measuring the damage to these United States by the Bush administration. The rule lacks grad ...[text shortened]... near the scale of damage inflicted upon America by George W. Bush.
But that is just my opinion. Not the end of the world either way. Stuff just keeps a happenin' all about us. It is pretty much out of anyones control. That is the nature of chaos that is manufactured into meaning by billions of beings, with no central processor.
One thing I know for sure. I ain't got any big investment into the way the world works. It will work just the same with me as without me. So do as I do. Relax. Have fun. Try to get peoples dander up, but for cryin' out loud, relax. It doesn't matter. It will be what it will be. That's kind of fun. Like a big old spook alley. No telling what will scare the bejeezus out of us next.