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On the 'Tax The Rich Already' thread, the learned Wildgrass wrote this.....
"""Really rich people don't want you to know how little they pay in taxes
Politically I'm very far from Mamdani but I agree with his effort to eliminate some of the perks that allow rich people to shift the burden of taxation from them on to the ever shrinking middle class.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanponciano/2022/12/13/billionaire-ken-griffin-sues-irs-over-leak-exposing-taxes-paid-by-25-richest-americans/"""""""
This is Avjoe. Allow me to clue you all in to reality. Get the 72% figure, please.
""""""""The top 10% pay 72% of all federal income taxes, and the bottom half, THREE PERCENT...3%. Democratic socialists talked about socialism like we don't already have a lot.... Social Security, unemployment, Medicare, nutritional assistance, Medicaid, Obamacare, disability, housing subsidies. How can you be soaking the rich , AND failing the poor so badly?? How can the federal government, who took in over FIVE TRILLION in taxes last year, and we still need that!?!? Are we really this incompetent and corrupt?
The truth is you're not gonna get health care to these people by threatening to tax and eat the rich . You raise the taxes of billionaire taxes....... they just leave the state, they leave the country."""""""
Please comment, or tell us about how Trump is kick-ass in MN, he never sleeps! And, how he can handle 50 issues at once. Biden could only handle 46. In MN, Walz is claiming credit for everything Trump is doing ,as he uncovers and takes action on all the fraud in MN.
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@AverageJoe1 saidWeve been over this already Joe. The figures you keep referring to are presented as propaganda to dumb people to justify tax cuts on the rich. Then they sue their own government when it's leaked what they actually pay.
On the 'Tax The Rich Already' thread, the learned Wildgrass wrote this.....
"""Really rich people don't want you to know how little they pay in taxes
Politically I'm very far from Mamdani but I agree with his effort to eliminate some of the perks that allow rich people to shift the burden of taxation from them on to the ever shrinking middle class.
https://www.forb ...[text shortened]... TV Set. I do woner why none of you have ever typed the phrase 'self reliance'. Dependent city.
Obviously, the top 10% of tax payers pay the most taxes. That's like saying the best basketball teams are the ones who score the most points. No duh.
Those arent the same people as what was being discussed in the other thread. In fact I think the top 10% of taxpayers should pay less taxes. Those 10% are working class people who use their money to raise families. They are paying taxes so that the truly rich people don't have to pay.
@AverageJoe1 saidWhat do you want the billionaires to pay???
On the 'Tax The Rich Already' thread, the learned Wildgrass wrote this.....
"""Really rich people don't want you to know how little they pay in taxes
Politically I'm very far from Mamdani but I agree with his effort to eliminate some of the perks that allow rich people to shift the burden of taxation from them on to the ever shrinking middle class.
https://www.forb ...[text shortened]... TV Set. I do woner why none of you have ever typed the phrase 'self reliance'. Dependent city.
Now you're learning little joe boy, it's nice to see that you are making progress. 🙂
@wildgrass saidLast para is difffficlt to follow.
Weve been over this already Joe. The figures you keep referring to are presented as propaganda to dumb people to justify tax cuts on the rich. Then they sue their own government when it's leaked what they actually pay.
Obviously, the top 10% of tax payers pay the most taxes. That's like saying the best basketball teams are the ones who score the most points. No duh.
T ...[text shortened]... heir money to raise families. They are paying taxes so that the truly rich people don't have to pay.
You say the top 10% should pay LESS taxes?.....that, those 10% (the top 10😵 are working class.
So, I think what you meant to say was that you think that the bottom 10% should pay less taxes? When 40% of Americans pay NO taxes at all?
Very confusing. please re-write ,,,un-pompously, if you will.
@AverageJoe1 saidYou might be surprised to find out that the 10% number you refer to here is not wealthy. To be a top 10%-er, your family needs to gross ~$150,000 per year in income, depending on where you live of course. That is solidly middle class if you're trying to raise a family. This group of people will never be billionaires, even if they work hard for another 1,000 years. They spend their money.
On the 'Tax The Rich Already' thread, the learned Wildgrass wrote this.....
"""Really rich people don't want you to know how little they pay in taxes
Politically I'm very far from Mamdani but I agree with his effort to eliminate some of the perks that allow rich people to shift the burden of taxation from them on to the ever shrinking middle class.
https://www.forb ...[text shortened]... aiming credit for everything Trump is doing ,as he uncovers and takes action on all the fraud in MN.
Billionaires pay less, sometimes even less than zero. They don't spend their money. Many of them don't even work or have income. It's this group that benefits the most from government investments in defense and security, but they don't pay for these services through taxes. I think they should pay.
@KingDavid403 saidall due respects, you never make any progress. But a nice fella, i'm sure
What do you want the billionaires to pay???
Now you're learning little joe boy, it's nice to see that you are making progress. 🙂
@AverageJoe1 saidMaybe this will clear things up: Many of the billionaires are in the group of 40% of people who don't pay any taxes. Many others pay very, very low rates like 2-3%. Most billionaires try very hard to keep it secret, but Warren Buffett often posts his return.
Last para is difffficlt to follow.
You say the top 10% should pay LESS taxes?.....that, those 10% (the top 10😵 are working class.
So, I think what you meant to say was that you think that the bottom 10% should pay less taxes? When 40% of Americans pay NO taxes at all?
Very confusing. please re-write ,,,un-pompously, if you will.
He only pays 0.1% in taxes.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
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@AverageJoe1 saidTrump is a liar, thief, murderer, child-molester, and a draft dodging coward pos; period. 🙂 That will NEVER change. 🙂
all due respects, you never make any progress. But a nice fella, i'm sure
And just think, YOU support all of that little joe boy. 🙂
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@wildgrass saidI should correct my 72%, that is ALL taxes. They pay individulally about 40%. You can hardly say 'they should pay' when Congress has clearly made provisions, for the GOOD of the country, that those mean rich people get to reduce their payments because of the ever-important (duh) goods and services that they provide. You feign ignorance? Why? Just to stir up the Forum? In a nutshell, billionaires can pay lower effective tax rates than middle class because much of their wealth is tied up in investments that are not taxed until they are sold. It would be natural for some of them to use legal strategies to defer or reduce their taxes, as would you. So this begs a question should the system treat income from investments, the same as as wages?
You might be surprised to find out that the 10% number you refer to here is not wealthy. To be a top 10%-er, your family needs to gross ~$150,000 per year in income, depending on where you live of course. That is solidly middle class if you're trying to raise a family. This group of people will never be billionaires, even if they work hard for another 1,000 years. They spen ...[text shortened]... defense and security, but they don't pay for these services through taxes. I think they should pay.
And be careful what you wish for… If a small percentage of people already fund a large portion of the government, which they do, if you rely even more heavily on them, it could create instability and discourage, said investment. This is an example of where the libs fall off track. It's like you should sit back and say, yes, average Joe has a point. But you do not.
And just for the record people like musk and Bezos have literally paid billions in taxes in certain years. Zero? Come on. Remember, all of the stock and assets they own are not taxed. So if all of their money is invested, you may read a post from Sunhouse that they didn't pay any tax. There was no tax due, don't you see? So the big question is, should we tax unrealized gains. Trust me you don't wanna go down that road. I'll be glad to chat about it if you want to.
@wildgrass saidHe has all of his assets in investments. Not taxable. Do you want to suggest that the rich pay taxes on unrealized gains. (does kamala know what that is 😆
Maybe this will clear things up: Many of the billionaires are in the group of 40% of people who don't pay any taxes. Many others pay very, very low rates like 2-3%. Most billionaires try very hard to keep it secret, but Warren Buffett often posts his return.
He only pays 0.1% in taxes.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax
@KingDavid403 saidyes, that is what i am writing about in my post just above
Trump is a liar, thief, murderer, child-molester, and a draft dodging coward pos; period. 🙂 That will NEVER change. 🙂
And just think, YOU support all of that little joe boy. 🙂
@AverageJoe1 saidYou keep saying the dumb thing over and over even after you've been corrected. It is obvious and not worth stating that the people who pay the most taxes are the people who pay the most taxes. The point is that the people who pay the most taxes are not the billionaires.
I should correct my 72%, that is ALL taxes. They pay individulally about 40%. You can hardly say 'they should pay' when Congress has clearly made provisions, for the GOOD of the country, that those mean rich people get to reduce their payments because of the ever-important (duh) goods and services that they provide. You feign ignorance? Why? Just to stir up the Foru ...[text shortened]... zed gains. Trust me you don't wanna go down that road. I'll be glad to chat about it if you want to.
It would be natural for some of them to use legal strategies to defer or reduce their taxes, as would you. So this begs a question should the system treat income from investments, the same as as wages?
Yes, yes it should. If you work for a living, and someone else just lets their money do the heavy lifting, I think at the very least both of those people should pay income taxes.
@wildgrass saidI get it. You are saying that my neighbor goes off to a real job everyday, makes money, brings it home for the family.
You keep saying the dumb thing over and over even after you've been corrected. It is obvious and not worth stating that the people who pay the most taxes are the people who pay the most taxes. The point is that the people who pay the most taxes are not the billionaires.
[quote]It would be natural for some of them to use legal strategies to defer or reduce their taxes, as w ...[text shortened]... money do the heavy lifting, I think at the very least both of those people should pay income taxes.
I think you are saying that while he is working, all of my money is invested, not subject to tax. I don't work, I sit at home, watch TV
Thirdly, I think you are saying that that that is not a fair situation. we all follow your reasoning.
So, what is my question here. You leave it hanging, you see. Do you think the guy at home should be taxed (simply put for purposes of discussion) the same as is the neighbor? (For brevity sake, notice above my warning of not taxing investments, it would upset a lot of apple carts).
@AverageJoe1 said
I should correct my 72%, that is ALL taxes. They pay individulally about 40%. You can hardly say 'they should pay' when Congress has clearly made provisions, for the GOOD of the country, that those mean rich people get to reduce their payments because of the ever-important (duh) goods and services that they provide. You feign ignorance? Why? Just to stir up the Foru ...[text shortened]... zed gains. Trust me you don't wanna go down that road. I'll be glad to chat about it if you want to.
So the big question is, should we tax unrealized gains. Trust me you don't wanna go down that road.
Property taxes are assessed as unrealized value, currently. Just do the same thing for total wealth instead of just your home. It brings down the rate for everyone and puts some skin in the game for the billionaires who benefit the most from government security expenditures.
@AverageJoe1 said
I should correct my 72%, that is ALL taxes. They pay individulally about 40%. You can hardly say 'they should pay' when Congress has clearly made provisions, for the GOOD of the country, that those mean rich people get to reduce their payments because of the ever-important (duh) goods and services that they provide. You feign ignorance? Why? Just to stir up the Foru ...[text shortened]... zed gains. Trust me you don't wanna go down that road. I'll be glad to chat about it if you want to.
And just for the record people like musk and Bezos have literally paid billions in taxes in certain years.
They should be paying more. A lot more. The government costs $7 trillion dollars every year to run and those are the two richest people who benefit by far the most from the safety and security of the US military might.
If they pay $1 billion some years and $0 most years I am absolutely sure that is too low a rate. It needs to be more.