What do you want the billionaires to pay??? A short treatise, you are very welcome

@AverageJoe1 said
On the 'Tax The Rich Already' thread, the learned Wildgrass wrote this.....

"""Really rich people don't want you to know how little they pay in taxes
Politically I'm very far from Mamdani but I agree with his effort to eliminate some of the perks that allow rich people to shift the burden of taxation from them on to the ever shrinking middle class.

https://www.forb ...[text shortened]... aiming credit for everything Trump is doing ,as he uncovers and takes action on all the fraud in MN.

It is abundantly clear you don't know what the FK you are talking about.
You just blurt out whatever Trump pukes out on a daily basis, and 2 hours later he doesn't even know what he said.

You ACT like you want rich folks to pay more taxes then BITCH about Democrats.

Democrats are bad, Dems are DUMB, dem Dems are WORTHLESS SOB's who can't run ANYTHING, so lets get rid of Medicare, medicaid and Social security while we are at it.

SS is OUR FKING MONEY NOT TRUMP'S but Trump acts like SS comes directly out of the national budget so what does he do for the PEOPLE? Raise taxes, called TARIFFS.

Then fking says FOREIGNERS pay the taxes like we are supposed to be SO STUPID we can't figure out stuff is more expensive because of Tariffs and now that Trump was so STUPID as to start a war with Iran which he can NEVER win.

Hr CLOSED the Straits of Hormuz, where a full one fifth of the ENTIRE planet supply of oil goes through there and it is worse than "JUST" oil not going through but FERTILIZER as well which means MORE increases in grocery prices because farmers RIGHT NOW have trouble getting enough fertilizer to grow their crops so if it was a thousand acre farm, he can only do maybe 700 acres 300 acres gone to weeds.

And YOU think Trump is a fking GENIUS. What a laugh. He is a fking IDIOT, REFUSING to even read NATIONAL DEFENSE folders, they have to LITERALLY be turned into a VIDEO otherwise, IN THE TRASH.

Some new immediate threat comes from China say, but it is in a folder, TRASH that crap Trump would say. REALLY great POTUS, for YOU anyway, the REAL people in the US think otherwise, like 2/3's of us want Trump, Mikey the squeaker of the house, Vance, Jim Jordan, Steve Miller, Hegseth, Bondi GONE, NOEM GONE and so many folks are resigning because those REAL folks with REAL experience are a THREAT to the ego of your lord and master LITERALLY so now a joke Kimmel said TWO DAYS before the attack on the dinner so Melania starts another war and OF COURSE Trump just falls over and plays dead NO MATTER the political cost because he is a FLAMING IDIOT and could care less for common folk, Rich folks, FINE, even if you are 'shudder'', black. A poor black lady walking up to Trump he would pass her by with a scowl. And you see how well he is loyal to those who are 120 % loyal to Trump.

It does not work like that if he dumps you under the bus, so now Jim Comey has attack # 2 going on this time on such a STUPID POS attack, they claim Comey posted a picture of a bunch of oyster shells shaped into 8647 which the ASSSHOLES at DOJ now claim Comey was calling for the assassination of Trump.

Which is yet ANOTHER POS WORTHLESS LAUGHBLE by the JUDGES. But your lord and master doesn't give a crap when he loses because he knows no matter WHAT charges are brought, WORTHLESS charges, doesn't matter the POINT is costing the victim MONEY and time in from of a judge.

But OF COURSE you will Vehemently deny deny deny which makes sense because there IS no attacks like this Trump can prove in court or anywhere else because the attacks are 150% BOGUS POLITICAL HIT JOBS.

@wildgrass said

So the big question is, should we tax unrealized gains. Trust me you don't wanna go down that road.

Property taxes are assessed as unrealized value, currently. Just do the same thing for total wealth instead of just your home. It brings down the rate for everyone and puts some skin in the game for the billionaires who benefit the most from government security expenditures.

Please......please, wildgrass. Is everyone else having to read this stuff? I hope not.

You just wrote an entire post and did not mention income taxes paid by citizens. They, and Bezos, pay taxes on real estate. Property taxes. We are on income taxes right now.
You didn't mention Inc tax. Not a word. All posts we have written today, above, and just above, the last one, were about Inc taxes.

Please.

@wildgrass said

And just for the record people like musk and Bezos have literally paid billions in taxes in certain years.

They should be paying more. A lot more. The government costs $7 trillion dollars every year to run and those are the two richest people who benefit by far the most from the safety and security of the US military might.

If they pay $1 billion some years and $0 most years I am absolutely sure that is too low a rate. It needs to be more.

I simply have to respond, I cannot believe you are being so obtuse🤔😳

Property tax isn’t a great comparison. Your house has a relatively stable, easy-to-value price and it’s a small slice of your net worth. Billionaire wealth is tied up in businesses that swing wildly….trying to ‘assess’ that every year is messy and easy to get wrong.

And you are not accurate to say they’re not paying. People like Elon Musk have paid billions in single years. The system taxes gains when they’re realized—that’s why it looks uneven, not zero. (of course Elizabeth, Warren, and Bernie, and all of those, want to tax unrealized gains, together with a wealth tax. That would be for another thread if you are one of those people, you and I are wasting our conversation here.

What you’re proposing is a yearly tax on unsold assets. That means taxing paper value that can disappear overnight. Are you cutting them a refund when the market drops? Forcing them to sell companies to pay the IRS?
Will you please digest this one point?!? You are not Sunhouse or Suzanne, get your antenna up
Also, the idea they ‘benefit the most’ from the military is a stretch. Everyone benefits from national security—it’s not like it’s a subscription service for billionaires.

I’m fine with tightening loopholes, but a wealth tax sounds simple until you actually try to run it. Then it turns into valuation fights, volatility problems, and a system that’s a lot less stable than what we have now..

If you are a wealth tax guy, you want to tax paper wealth. What happens if it drops. Refunds?… Do Forced sales??

@AverageJoe1 said
I simply have to respond, I cannot believe you are being so obtuse🤔😳

Property tax isn’t a great comparison. Your house has a relatively stable, easy-to-value price and it’s a small slice of your net worth. Billionaire wealth is tied up in businesses that swing wildly….trying to ‘assess’ that every year is messy and easy to get wrong.

And you are not accurate to say ...[text shortened]... wealth tax guy, you want to tax paper wealth. What happens if it drops. Refunds?… Do Forced sales??

Elon Musk is worth $805 billion, I'm not giving him credit for paying a lot of taxes "in some years" when the rest of us pay a lot every year.

I'm not saying it'd be easy to do, I'm saying it must be done. The top 10% are shouldering the burden of taxation and trying to raise families and work hard (they have nothing leftover for political donations), while the mega-millionaires and billionaires sit pretty and preen without paying hardly any taxes, lapping up the warm milk and benefits of a government that other people are paying for (and their tax-deductible donations to politicians to keep it that way).

It must be done because the cost of government is too high. People's property tax bills are exceeding their mortgage payments every month. If we had some form of a wealth tax, properly implemented, as an added benefit it might actually provide some push from deep-pocketed constituents to politicians for actually considering cutting government spending.

@AverageJoe1 said
On the 'Tax The Rich Already' thread, the learned Wildgrass wrote this.....

"""Really rich people don't want you to know how little they pay in taxes
Politically I'm very far from Mamdani but I agree with his effort to eliminate some of the perks that allow rich people to shift the burden of taxation from them on to the ever shrinking middle class.

https://www.forb ...[text shortened]... aiming credit for everything Trump is doing ,as he uncovers and takes action on all the fraud in MN.

About the Rich:

Some century or so ago, rich people were highly admired by everyone, for the following reasons:
The rich person ran a business that supplied jobs to people;
The rich person supplied a product to society that was quite popular and util, mostly

And the rich person himself took great pride in himself, as he surely enjoyed his lofty stature in society
as well as, of course, having large amounts of money. America was consumed with entrepreneurs struggling for fame and fortune.

Today, it is much different. Society has no want or need for rich people, now considered a blight in our ranks.
The working people are not at all thankful for a job, as they claim it's their right to have a job, as well as the perks.

As I see it right now, we are still slowly moving toward a 180 degree turn, and will continue on this way,
getting more and more dismal as the years go by, until finally, the communist Big Bang, that ends them.

By that time, the rich Chinese and Russians will be laughing themselves silly at us, wondering why we
chose to go the route to poverty that totalitarianism always causes.

Eat the rich.

@Earl-of-Trumps said
About the Rich:

Some century or so ago, rich people were highly admired by everyone, for the following reasons:
The rich person ran a business that supplied jobs to people;
The rich person supplied a product to society that was quite popular and util, mostly

And the rich person himself took great pride in himself, as he surely enjoyed his lofty stature in soc ...[text shortened]... ring why we
chose to go the route to poverty that totalitarianism always causes.

Eat the rich.

Good post. Could we not just each take care of ourselves, self reliance, live within our means, live independence, support limited government?
This concept would work if we did not concern ourselves with how much more money ‘than someone else’ has.
Can not, can NOT, we all have a govt that builds itself on its resources?
……..which does not ‘go where the money is’ like a bank robber once said?
Hate Trump, hate the rich.. xhmmmm, socialism.

@Earl-of-Trumps said
About the Rich:

Some century or so ago, rich people were highly admired by everyone, for the following reasons:
The rich person ran a business that supplied jobs to people;
The rich person supplied a product to society that was quite popular and util, mostly

And the rich person himself took great pride in himself, as he surely enjoyed his lofty stature in soc ...[text shortened]... ring why we
chose to go the route to poverty that totalitarianism always causes.

Eat the rich.

The working people are not at all thankful for a job, as they claim it's their right to have a job, as well as the perks.

It's fewer people with skin in the game, man. There's a fixed amount of money in circulation. The regulatory conditions create the billionaires (who don't have to pay taxes), which under different conditions could have been thousands of millionaires instead, each running their own business, accountable for their own salaries and perks.

We have hundreds of billionaires, sucking up all the capital for themselves. It's no wonder the working people don't care anymore. What used to be an upwardly mobile economy has been reshaped by billions in donations to politicians who rewrite the tax code to benefit their donors. Wonder why no one likes them? They're gross.

@wildgrass said

The working people are not at all thankful for a job, as they claim it's their right to have a job, as well as the perks.

It's fewer people with skin in the game, man. There's a fixed amount of money in circulation. The regulatory conditions create the billionaires (who don't have to pay taxes), which under different conditions could have been thousands of m ...[text shortened]... cians who rewrite the tax code to benefit their donors. Wonder why no one likes them? They're gross.

This is huge. We could break our impasse here.!



First you are quite wrong that there is a fixed amount of money” that’s just wrong.
Modern economies aren’t a fixed pie. Wealth is created, not just divided up. When companies grow, invent things, or become more efficient, they expand the total economy. That’s why overall living standards rise over time. I have said often to you, fellas that there are a lot of pies..

Then you say “Billionaires don’t pay taxes”, which is incomplete and misleading.
Most wealthy people pay significant taxes (income, capital gains, property, etc.). What people mean is they often pay lower effective rates on certain income types. That’s a policy debate—not the same as “they don’t pay.”
A debate about policy is possibly what you need to start.

Your schoolyard “” if billionaires didn’t exist, we’d have thousands of millionaires instead” Geez.
That ain’t how it works. You say that with no basis of thoughts.
And suck. You oversimplify because it does not sit in a vault. Invested which investments produce jobs, infrastructure, pensions. retirement plans. Their company is employed people in produce. Goods and services leave them the hell alone.
The working people, the ones that have the jobs? You say they don’t care anymore? You lost me there

@AverageJoe1 said
This is huge. We could break our impasse here.!



First you are quite wrong that there is a fixed amount of money” that’s just wrong.
Modern economies aren’t a fixed pie. Wealth is created, not just divided up. When companies grow, invent things, or become more efficient, they expand the total economy. That’s why overall living standards rise over time. I have s ...[text shortened]...
The working people, the ones that have the jobs? You say they don’t care anymore? You lost me there

Ok, you're referring to change in the amount of money over time, but at any given time there is a finite amount. That amount has been increasingly concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people, and is currently concentrated at levels that have not been seen since the 1920s.

The reason is due to regulatory conditions that support concentration of wealth. It's the same thing as what you are calling "policy". You say we should have the policy discussion, I guess I've been having it all by myself.

The rich people need to pay more taxes. That's the change in policy that is needed to fix it. That changes the regulatory conditions a.k.a. the policy that will bring things back to level and hopefully avoid another 1920s style depression.

@wildgrass said

The working people are not at all thankful for a job, as they claim it's their right to have a job, as well as the perks.

It's fewer people with skin in the game, man. There's a fixed amount of money in circulation. The regulatory conditions create the billionaires (who don't have to pay taxes), which under different conditions could have been thousands of m ...[text shortened]... cians who rewrite the tax code to benefit their donors. Wonder why no one likes them? They're gross.

You will have to show me the tax code having been rewritten, and at the behest of "the rich".

you're seeing windmills, my friend

@Earl-of-Trumps said
You will have to show me the tax code having been rewritten, and at the behest of "the rich".

you're seeing windmills, my friend

Have you been living under a rock?

@wildgrass said
Ok, you're referring to change in the amount of money over time, but at any given time there is a finite amount. That amount has been increasingly concentrated in the hands of fewer and fewer people, and is currently concentrated at levels that have not been seen since the 1920s.

The reason is due to regulatory conditions that support concentration of wealth. It's the sa ...[text shortened]... the policy that will bring things back to level and hopefully avoid another 1920s style depression.

The reason is due to regulatory factors? No, I’m sorry, if 1000 people live on an island and some work harder than others or some are smarter than others, then God should have given the ones not so smart more brains,
Then you have a factor of luck. Then you have the factor of someone who has something that is very valuable and sells it. Then you have a factor of someone who makes something that everybody else wants and they give him money for it. I think you want in the end here that the money that he got should be shared amongst the masses.
Who is going to do anything if they realize that anything they do will be taken from them. Sorry your Post is making me a little crazy. If your people decide to go after the rich people, let’s say I have five houses one at the lake one in the mountains, one in Europe, one in Barbados and so forth. I do not see how you will let me keep those houses if you pull this off. Will you please answer me a simple question…… Would your actions require me to lose my houses? I worked hard for them while other people did not work so hard. Then you knock on my door…… again…. you’re making me a bit crazy

@AverageJoe1 said
The reason is due to regulatory factors? No, I’m sorry, if 1000 people live on an island and some work harder than others or some are smarter than others, then God should have given the ones not so smart more brains,
Then you have a factor of luck. Then you have the factor of someone who has something that is very valuable and sells it. Then you have a factor of someo ...[text shortened]... other people did not work so hard. Then you knock on my door…… again…. you’re making me a bit crazy

You are convoluting the issue on purpose.

If you have a job and need to work to make a living, that money gets taxed out the wazooo.

If you don't have a job because your dad gave you a huge inheritance, you live off that money forever and you don't work and it'll never be taxed. You still rely on government for safety and security but you don't pay for it.

The situation should be flipped. Government should incentivize work not sloth.

@wildgrass said
You are convoluting the issue on purpose.

If you have a job and need to work to make a living, that money gets taxed out the wazooo.

If you don't have a job because your dad gave you a huge inheritance, you live off that money forever and you don't work and it'll never be taxed. You still rely on government for safety and security but you don't pay for it.

The situation should be flipped. Government should incentivize work not sloth.

Think again. Libs cannot get past this fact. Really step back a moment.. Remember the TV series, The Millioinaire? A secret benefactor occasionaly gives a million dollars to a stranger.;
So, a guy at the gas station, or your neighbor, or Sonhouse who lives in Northern Idaho, gets $20,000,000 out of nowhere.
I will avoid redundancy, have said all that can be said, way back to my first analogy about 10 years ago, 1000 people arrive by boats at the same time, build a society.
Can I ask YOU to do analogy about the person who is given $20M.??
C'mon, be fair, be believable, a nice discussion,, show us something that could really work. You can work my 5 homes in if you'd like, (it is true, one I rent out ). Can I keep my houses?

PS: Seattle Mayor (god she is ugly) is saying she does not care if millionaires leave the state!!!! A new debate in the making!!
She, like Mamdani , lives with her mommy and daddy. They, like Mamdani's parents, support them.
As ro leadership, they do not know what they do not know. They SURELY know nothing about money, economics, runnng cities.
you see, they are like you.....go where the money is, get the rich to pay for everything. Don't work, you silly goose.

@AverageJoe1 said
Think again. Libs cannot get past this fact. Really step back a moment.. Remember the TV series, The Millioinaire? A secret benefactor occasionaly gives a million dollars to a stranger.;
So, a guy at the gas station, or your neighbor, or Sonhouse who lives in Northern Idaho, gets $20,000,000 out of nowhere.
I will avoid redundancy, have said all that can be sai ...[text shortened]... ike you.....go where the money is, get the rich to pay for everything. Don't work, you silly goose.

No sorry I don't watch TV and don't care for your dumb analogies that isn't about taxes at all.

Crank up the taxes on the wealthy. Make it hurt. That will relieve some of the strain on middle class families who are subsidizing the decadent privileges of rich people. How's that for a policy debate?