Originally posted by no1marauderSeems to me that the PLO had previously recoginzed the right of Israel to exist. Hamas does not agree, clearly .. they have said that a dozen times. The Palestinians have overwhelmingly supported Hamas in their terrorists acts and have now overhwelmingly voted them into power. So its obvius that the consensus of the people is that Israel must be destroyed.
Are you that ignorant of the history, Ivanhoe? Read this: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html
Originally posted by Rajk999I don't think it is that simple.
Seems to me that the PLO had previously recoginzed the right of Israel to exist. Hamas does not agree, clearly .. they have said that a dozen times. The Palestinians have overwhelmingly supported Hamas in their terrorists acts and have now overhwelmingly voted them into power. So its obvius that the consensus of the people is that Israel must be destroyed.
This wasn't a referendum with a choice between Fatah to continue negotiations or Hamas to continue suicide bombings.
Hamas have been doing a lot of grass roots work - building schools, nurserys and such community facilities- for decades. On the other hand, Fatah are saeen by some as yesterday's men, who are at worst corrupt and at best interested mostly in their own positions.
I don't think you can draw the conclusion that this is a vote to fight for the destruction of israel.
Originally posted by no1marauderOh marauder, sometimes I feel sorry for you .....
Are you that ignorant of the history, Ivanhoe? Read this: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
The Hamas Charter:
"Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. Neither a single Arab country nor all Arab countries, neither any king or president, nor all the kings and presidents, neither any organization nor all of them, be they Palestinian or Arab, possess the right to do that. Palestine is an Islamic Waqf land consecrated for Moslem generations until Judgement Day. This being so, who could claim to have the right to represent Moslem generations till Judgement Day?
This is the law governing the land of Palestine in the Islamic Sharia (law) and the same goes for any land the Moslems have conquered by force, because during the times of (Islamic) conquests, the Moslems consecrated these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement."
Now, how about that, BA ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeivanhoe, let me tell u something, dont expect from those who have been kiked from their own lands, killed in front of the world eyes, humilated in their homes, treated like animals from thos whom they used, all arab did, to treat them before 1948 as one people.. dont expect of anybody that has so much pain and hate, a fair one, to be so nice and rational and peaceful. violence my friends produces more violence..
Oh marauder, sometimes I feel sorry for you .....
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
The Hamas Charter:
"Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered ...[text shortened]... d these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement."
Now, how about that, BA ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeSort of like the zionists in power in Israel...
Oh marauder, sometimes I feel sorry for you .....
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
The Hamas Charter:
"Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered ...[text shortened]... d these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement."
Now, how about that, BA ?
This is gonna be interesting, isn't it?
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Originally posted by ivanhoeYou are moving the goal posts; your earlier implicit claim was that the Palestinians, not just Hamas, had never recognized Israel. That was incorrect as I showed you. That Hamas has never recognized the state of Israel is true, but Hamas has not been the Palestinian government.
Oh marauder, sometimes I feel sorry for you .....
http://www.palestinecenter.org/cpap/documents/charter.html
The Hamas Charter:
"Article Eleven:
The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered ...[text shortened]... d these lands to Moslem generations till the Day of Judgement."
Now, how about that, BA ?
Change a few words and Article 11 of Hamas' charter would fit neatly into any of the Zionist organizations in the early 20th century.
Originally posted by RedmikeWhat I meant was the if Hamas continues with goal of Israels destruction .. would the masses agree or disagree ? I would think gnereally, they will go along and not object.
I don't think it is that simple.
This wasn't a referendum with a choice between Fatah to continue negotiations or Hamas to continue suicide bombings.
Hamas have been doing a lot of grass roots work - building schools, nurserys and such community facilities- for decades. On the other hand, Fatah are saeen by some as yesterday's men, who are at worst cor ...[text shortened]... hink you can draw the conclusion that this is a vote to fight for the destruction of israel.
However, it is likely that now that Hamas has a greater responsilility they may modify their MO a deal with things differently .. we'll see.
Originally posted by DialaGo and tell the marauder .....
ivanhoe, let me tell u something, dont expect from those who have been kiked from their own lands, killed in front of the world eyes, humilated in their homes, treated like animals from thos whom they used, all arab did, to treat them before 1948 as one people.. dont expect of anybody that has so much pain and hate, a fair one, to be so nice and rational and peaceful. violence my friends produces more violence..
Originally posted by no1marauderThere is much more in the Hamas's Charter than just article 11. If you read it all you'll soon find out that Hamas is a different kettle of fish.
You are moving the goal posts; your earlier implicit claim was that the Palestinians, not just Hamas, had never recognized Israel. That was incorrect as I showed you. That Hamas has never recognized the state of Israel is true, but Hamas has not been the Palestinian government.
Change a few words and Article 11 of Hamas' charter would fit neatly into any of the Zionist organizations in the early 20th century.
Originally posted by shavixmirAlso:
What exactly is your problem with Hamas, that you don't have with the Israeli government and the US government?
If the West hadn't turned a blind eye to Israel destroying the whole PLO security network and completely undermining everything they tried to achieve, then Hamas would not have grown. At least not so quick.
It would seem to me that if you feel Hamas is a monster, you created it yourself.
Ivanhoe, I only wish that for just one day Israel somehow invades your
country. Just for a day.
Only then you will truly understand what the Zionists have done to us.
The thoughts that will gather in your mind against the unlawful invasion,
the rape of your sisters, and the torture to your elders would make the
Hamas charter look like a children's book.
Defending one's land is NOT "fundamentalist". Protecting one's own
mother cannot be defined as "Terrorist". Looking for the well being of
one's own children, for crying out loud, is never, in anyone's book,
considered as "Extremist".
Wake up for God's sake man!
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Originally posted by shavixmirI did ? ...... 😕 ............. Why didn't you create it also ? Why do I get the blame ?
Also:
If the West hadn't turned a blind eye to Israel destroying the whole PLO security network and completely undermining everything they tried to achieve, then Hamas would not have grown. At least not so quick.
It would seem to me that if you feel Hamas is a monster, you created it yourself.
2 edits
Originally posted by PeachyI am wide awake ... and I tell you the answer to your problems is a negotiated just and lasting peace, not war !
Ivanhoe, I only wish that for just one day Israel somehow invades your
country. Just for a day.
Only then you will truly understand what the Zionists have done to us.
The thoughts that will gather in your mind against the unlawful invasion,
the rape of your sisters, and the torture to your elders would make the
Hamas charter look like a children's never, in anyone's book,
considered as "Extremist".
Wake up for God's sake man!