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  1. 22 Jun '10 12:22 / 1 edit
    The Arizona senator[John Kyle] said that in a White House meeting with Barack Obama the president said he would not secure the border with Mexico until Congress moves on "comprehensive" immigration reform. Kyle, a Republican, quoted the president as saying that if he secures the border first, he'll never get Republicans on board for comprehensive reform.

    The White House vehemently denied the assertion, adding that Kyle "knows" that Obama didn't say it. Kyle's office reaffirmed the accuracy of the quote.

    http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/dennis-byrne-barbershop/2010/06/whos-a-liar-sen-john-kyle-or-president-barack-obama.html
  2. 22 Jun '10 12:27 / 1 edit
    Kyle's office confirmed Kyle's version? Now that's a shocker. Next on the news, the white house confirms that Obama was right and the revelation that water is wet.
  3. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Jun '10 12:36
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    The Arizona senator[John Kyle] said that in a White House meeting with Barack Obama the president said he would not secure the border with Mexico until Congress moves on "comprehensive" immigration reform. Kyle, a Republican, quoted the president as saying that if he secures the border first, he'll never get Republicans on board for comprehensive reform.
    I think a storyline where you've got the U.S. president saying "I will not secure the border with Mexico until Congress moves on comprehensive immigration reform", to a state senator in a White House meeting, is a risible non-starter. 'Comic book' even. Maybe it works at state level - at least in some states. I don't know. But Kyle looks silly, for sure.

    Do you feel I am hijacking this thread?
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Jun '10 12:52 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    The Arizona senator[John Kyle] said that in a White House meeting with Barack Obama the president said he would not secure the border with Mexico until Congress moves on "comprehensive" immigration reform. Kyle, a Republican, quoted the president as saying that if he secures the border first, he'll never get Republicans on board for comprehensive refo ...[text shortened]... yle "knows" that Obama didn't say it. Kyle's office reaffirmed the accuracy of the quote.
    I like Kyl (no "e" ) and I have no idea who said what.

    However...

    If the President did say "that if he secures the border first, he'll never get Republicans on board for comprehensive reform," he is probably correct. If there is ever to be immigration reform in something like the mold of McCain-Kennedy, the only way to get GOP support will be to trade tighter border controls for some level or [dare I say] tolerance/amnesty/legalization/whatever-you-want-to-call-it for the illegals already here.

    It is odd that the White House would vehemently deny saying something that is probably true. Well, such is politics, I suppose.
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Jun '10 12:58 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    It is odd that the White House would vehemently deny saying something that is probably true. Well, such is politics, I suppose.
    Maybe it's utherpendragon who's misleading us with the wording. It's happened before. It is NOT odd that the White House would vehemently deny that president Barack Obama said he would not secure the border with Mexico until Congress moves on "comprehensive" immigration reform. So what is being claimed exactly? Is there anyone other than utherpendragon who can tell us exactly what these unsubstantiated claims that Kyl is making?
  6. 22 Jun '10 12:59
    Originally posted by FMF
    I think a storyline where you've got the U.S. president saying "I will not secure the border with Mexico until Congress moves on comprehensive immigration reform", to a state senator in a White House meeting, is a risible non-starter. 'Comic book' even. Maybe it works at state level - at least in some states. I don't know. But Kyle looks silly, for sure.

    Do you feel I am hijacking this thread?
    I wonder if Kyl is lying,what could he possibly gain by doing so?
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Jun '10 13:02 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    I wonder if Kyl is lying,what could he possibly gain by doing so?
    Well what you claim he is claiming sounds like something lifted off a paranoid wingnut blog or a daft freeper conspiracy thread. So perhaps Kyl is cultivating his appeal to Obama hatebloggers or freepers.
  8. 22 Jun '10 13:04
    Originally posted by FMF
    Maybe it's utherpendragon who's misleading us with the wording. It's happened before. It is NOT odd that the White House would vehemently deny that president Barack Obama said he would not secure the border with Mexico until Congress moves on "comprehensive" immigration reform. So what is being claimed exactly? Is there anyone other than utherpendragon who can tell us exactly what these unsubstantiated claims that Kyl is making?
    NOW you are attempting to hi jack the thread.
    It usually takes you a couple of post to start personalizing and making it about you and me.
    I understand. You are kinda like the mouse that roared.
    The OP is not my words but from the article I quoted .
  9. 22 Jun '10 13:05
    Originally posted by FMF
    Well what you claim he is claiming sounds like something lifted off a paranoid wingnut blog or a daft freeper conspiracy thread. So perhaps Kyl is cultivating his appeal to Obama hatebloggers or freepers.
    Its actually all over the news in all fashions here in the UNITED STATES.
  10. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Jun '10 13:09
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    The OP is not my words but from the article I quoted .
    It wouldn't be the first time we have been served up with aan OP with a "quote" that turns out to be some little nugget from a partisan disinformation campaign. Didn't you think the words - the exact words and turn of phrase - attributed to Obama (in indirect speech in your text) are ludicrous? Come on. I know you don't like him, but do you really think this president - or any president - would say "I will not secure U.S. borders until... [insert problem with political opponents here].."? Do you really?
  11. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Jun '10 13:10 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    Maybe it's utherpendragon who's misleading us with the wording. It's happened before. It is NOT odd that the White House would vehemently deny that president Barack Obama said he would not secure the border with Mexico until Congress moves on "comprehensive" immigration reform. So what is being claimed exactly? Is there anyone other than utherpendragon who can tell us exactly what these unsubstantiated claims that Kyl is making?
    Substantially the same story does appear all over the net.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008344-503544.html

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/21/kyl-obama-wont-secure-border-lawmakers-immigration-package/

    http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/21/white-house-denies-claims-by-jon-kyl-that-obama-is-holding-border-security-hostage/

    http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2010/06/21/white-house-says-kyl-lies-on-immigration/

    FWIW, I agree with Obama. Only a sense of urgency will cause the passage of immigration reform, which is such a hot button issue. Porous borders create the sense of urgency. If Kyl and Obama and Reid and co. want to solve the problem, then cancel the summer recess, lock the door and iron out a comprehensive compromise solution.
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Jun '10 13:11 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    Its actually all over the news in all fashions here in the UNITED STATES.
    So is a lot of stuff that turns out to be untrue. Maybe Kyl is clever wielding a he-said-I-said thing in a political domain as poisonous and as polarized as the one in the U.S. Who knows? But do you seriously think that a president said "I will not secure the borders [of my nation] because/until blah blah blah..." to what is effectively a political opponent?
  13. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    22 Jun '10 13:12
    Originally posted by sh76
    Substantially the same story does appear all over the net.
    So were 'death panels'.
  14. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    22 Jun '10 13:13
    Originally posted by FMF
    So were 'death panels'.
    Yes, but not on CBS and the WSJ.
  15. 22 Jun '10 13:16
    Originally posted by sh76
    Substantially the same story does appear all over the net.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008344-503544.html

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/06/21/kyl-obama-wont-secure-border-lawmakers-immigration-package/

    http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/21/white-house-denies-claims-by-jon-kyl-that-obama-is-holding-border-security-hostage/

    http://blog ...[text shortened]... , then cancel the summer recess, lock the door and iron out a comprehensive compromise solution.
    Thank you sh76.

    I don't know who is lying. Some one is though.
    Thats why I wanted input on this.Not to be accused by a troll from God knows where of creating a misleading OP.