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  1. 05 Jun '10 17:29 / 1 edit
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1968110,00.html

    According to a Time magazine article, there appears to be a problem within the US military. It appears that 80-90% of women are sexually harassed and 30% are raped. To put this into better perspective, about 15% of the military are women.

    How should this be addressed?
  2. 05 Jun '10 17:33
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1968110,00.html

    According to a Time magazine article, there appears to be a problem within the US military. It appears that 80-90% of women are sexually harassed and 30% are raped. To put this into better perspective, about 15% of the military are women.

    How should this be addressed?
    punish the rapists (obviously) and make sure women are taught what to do in case they're harassed.
  3. 05 Jun '10 20:43
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    punish the rapists (obviously) and make sure women are taught what to do in case they're harassed.
    But according to the article, many of the rape victims fear reporting the crimes in case their is retaliation.

    So why is this so pervasive in the military?
  4. 06 Jun '10 18:00
    Originally posted by whodey
    But according to the article, many of the rape victims fear reporting the crimes in case their is retaliation.

    So why is this so pervasive in the military?
    But according to the article, many of the rape victims fear reporting the crimes in case their is retaliation

    hence my proposal that they should teach women what to do in such cases, so that they are more confortable in alerting the authorities without fear of reprisal.

    So why is this so pervasive in the military?

    probably because the perpetrators know they're going to get away with it.
  5. 06 Jun '10 19:40
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    [b]But according to the article, many of the rape victims fear reporting the crimes in case their is retaliation

    hence my proposal that they should teach women what to do in such cases, so that they are more confortable in alerting the authorities without fear of reprisal.

    So why is this so pervasive in the military?

    probably because the perpetrators know they're going to get away with it.[/b]
    From what I've read/heard, the women who do report it don't get any satisfactory results (which is fairly common outside the military as well, but civilian women have advocates now who can help them). I would propose instead that until the men are taught to be real men, women be taught to ensure that if they're raped, the rapist isn't capable of repeating the crime in the future. If men knew that the act would be the last time they get to use that piece of equipment, they might think twice.
  6. Standard member joneschr
    Some guy
    06 Jun '10 20:22
    My feeling is that harassment, of all types, is generally best handled with better education. Sexual harassment has been reduced dramatically in the general workforce because men are better educated that it's unacceptable and punished.

    Rape, is different. All men know rape is wrong, all men know rape can and will be punished. If it isn't being, that's the problem, and should be investigated. Education is helpful here too, but mostly in telling women that they need to report rape -- many women blame themselves. They need to know it's not their fault and that they must seek justice.
  7. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    06 Jun '10 20:36
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1968110,00.html

    According to a Time magazine article, there appears to be a problem within the US military. It appears that 80-90% of women are sexually harassed and 30% are raped. To put this into better perspective, about 15% of the military are women.

    How should this be addressed?
    Aggressive policing within the military.
  8. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    06 Jun '10 20:38
    Originally posted by whodey
    But according to the article, many of the rape victims fear reporting the crimes in case their is retaliation.

    So why is this so pervasive in the military?
    Because the military is where we concentrate all of our human pitbulls and tough guys and then tell them to go kill people. That aggression I would imagine naturally leads to rape just as it does to fights between men...but the latter don't seem to be an issue.
  9. 06 Jun '10 20:59 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    But according to the article, many of the rape victims fear reporting the crimes in case their is retaliation.

    So why is this so pervasive in the military?
    In my opinion the article doesn't at all paint a picture of reality.

    where filing charges can be a career killer — not for the assailant but the victim.


    An accusation alone, whether true or not, is a career killer for the accused. I'm curious in what way they claim it's a career killer for the accuser.

    And then some just do the math: only 8% of cases that are investigated end in prosecution, compared with 40% for civilians arrested for sex crimes.


    Notice the subtlety there. They're comparing what percent of cases investigated in the military to the percent arrested in the civilian world who are convicted. And are they comparing like crimes?

    Female vets are four times more likely to be homeless than male vets are, according to the Service Women's Action Network, and of those, 40% report being victims of sexual assault.


    Which study shows 40% of homeless veteran women report being victims of sexual assault? And being that they're homeless, does it not stand to reason that many of them are from the Vietnam era?

    Here's the problem I have with this article. Instead of trying to portray an objective, realistic picture of where we stand today on women's issues in the military, the author goes out of his way to try to paint as ugly a picture as possible.

    I've spent many years in two different branches of service. And based on my own experience, if my own daughter wanted to join when she's 18 I would fully support it.
  10. 06 Jun '10 21:02
    Originally posted by joneschr
    My feeling is that harassment, of all types, is generally best handled with better education. Sexual harassment has been reduced dramatically in the general workforce because men are better educated that it's unacceptable and punished.

    Rape, is different. All men know rape is wrong, all men know rape can and will be punished. If it isn't being, that's ...[text shortened]... n blame themselves. They need to know it's not their fault and that they must seek justice.
    Just a side note, everyone in the US Army (and I presume the military) receives regular, mandatory training on sexual harassment and sexual assault.
  11. 07 Jun '10 17:43
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Just a side note, everyone in the US Army (and I presume the military) receives regular, mandatory training on sexual harassment and sexual assault.
    If that is the case, why do women who are victims of such crimes fail to report it because "fear of retaliation" (as whodey claimed before)?
  12. 07 Jun '10 22:30
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    If that is the case, why do women who are victims of such crimes fail to report it because "fear of retaliation" (as whodey claimed before)?
    There is no "if." It is the case.

    Women have a multitude of resources they can turn to, along with SOP in such cases that is designed to protect her. They can make a formal complaint through their chain of command, through their EO representative or through the Inspector General. All accusations are required to be investigated.

    It's funny because that article paints a picture as if women are treated like meat, and that men can run around doing whatever they want with impunity. But the reality is, as a man, I won't even tell a dirty joke around a female soldier unless I know her really well. The fact is women are treated differently in that often times men won't treat them like one of the guys. This is for fear of receiving some bunk EO complaint.

    Now, I'm certainly not saying there aren't real cases of sexual harassment or sexual assault in the military. But the picture that article paints is an extreme exaggeration.
  13. 08 Jun '10 01:03
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    There is no "if." It is the case.

    Women have a multitude of resources they can turn to, along with SOP in such cases that is designed to protect her. They can make a formal complaint through their chain of command, through their EO representative or through the Inspector General. All accusations are required to be investigated.

    It's funny b ...[text shortened]... assault in the military. But the picture that article paints is an extreme exaggeration.
    Without knowing for certain, I suspected as much of this article.

    For the sake of the argument, could women in the military be better utilized than they are at present? It doesn't seem to make sense to treat women just like men, when it is clear that there are overall differences, with a few exceptions.

    There are clearly some duties women can and do perform better than most men, and other duties that most women will not perform as well as most men. Shouldn't everyone in the military be utilized properly, to maximize their abilities, and minimize their shortcomings, for their own safety as well as for that of their fellow soldiers?

    If there are significant problems with integrating men and women, why are we doing it?
  14. 08 Jun '10 01:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Without knowing for certain, I suspected as much of this article.

    For the sake of the argument, could women in the military be better utilized than they are at present? It doesn't seem to make sense to treat women just like men, when it is clear that there are overall differences, with a few exceptions.

    There are clearly some duties women can and ers?

    If there are significant problems with integrating men and women, why are we doing it?
    After many years in the military, I don't.

    Women are allowed in all MOS's except for combat arms, like infantrymen. They also have separate physical fitness requirements. My mother-in-law was active duty military during the Vietnam era, and from what she's said sexual harassment was a big problem back then.

    But in this day and age it's far, far less. And this is based on many conversations with many different women currently serving. I don't doubt that sexual harassment does happen. By the laws of probability the military is a big place with men and women working closely together for long periods of time. The military already has a plethora of training, procedures and resources to deal with it. I don't doubt that perhaps more can be done, but sensationalist articles that do everything they can to exaggerate the problem make it difficult to have a real conversation.
  15. 08 Jun '10 01:45
    i read the article a while back and don't remember the basis for their figures.