@Suzianne saidZelensky knew Russia was going to invade and did nothing to prevent it.
Stop lying!
Putin was the only one with a choice.
He didn't give Zelenskyy that same choice.
He downplayed the possibility of being invaded to keep people from leaving Ukraine in an exodus. He wanted to keep the people there for selfish reasons.
https://www.newsweek.com/zelensky-reveals-why-he-didnt-warn-his-citizens-russian-invasion-1734268
@Metal-Brain saidMy point is simple.
I fail to see your point. Most war criminals went free.
https://prepareforchange.net/2017/01/04/most-nazi-war-criminals-were-set-free-went-back-to-bayer-basf-modern-day-pharma-giants/
Everybody with moderate intelligence knows the winners of wars make the rules. Stop making stupid Nazi comparisons. You wanted censorship in this country. Comparing you to a Nazi make ...[text shortened]... ur government was fairly Nazi friendly. A Nazi mind is a terrible thing to waste if it benefits you.
Von Ribbentrop was convicted of and executed for planning aggressive war which was a Crime Against Peace.
The UN Charter, which Russia signed and remains a member of, codified Crimes Against Peace as a violation of international law and required members to peacefully settle disputes.
All your "whataboutisms" don't change the fact that Russia's invasion of Ukraine was a Crime Against Peace and all who ordered it are criminals. It was and is an aggressive war banned by IL including agreements Russia herself is a signatory to. Ukraine wasn't and isn't any imminent threat to Russia and her internal politics are none of its business.
The sooner you admit this, the better.
@no1marauder saidHow is that any different than what Israel did in Gaza?
My point is simple.
Von Ribbentrop was convicted of and executed for planning aggressive war which was a Crime Against Peace.
The UN Charter, which Russia signed and remains a member of, codified Crimes Against Peace as a violation of international law and required members to peacefully settle disputes.
All your "whataboutisms" don't change the fact that Russia's ...[text shortened]... Russia and her internal politics are none of its business.
The sooner you admit this, the better.
@Metal-Brain saidA "whataboutism".
How is that any different than what Israel did in Gaza?
Why don't you just admit that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was a Crime Against Peace and we can proceed from there?
In a perfect world, violators of international law would face punishment but we don't live in that world. The question is now how to deal with the situation and end the war on as just terms as possible.
@Metal-Brain saidRight, we are supposed to believe via your Putin propaganda machine there didn't need to be a war, maybe if say Ukraine just caved in and gave the whole country to Putin, then magically a peace would ensue.
Of course I approve. Ukraine made no effort to avoid a war. That is what Trump meant when he said Zelensky started it. Zelensky knew Russia was going to invade Ukraine and he downplayed it to keep people from leaving Ukraine.
Biden wanted Russia to invade Ukraine. His diplomats were warned that Ukraine becoming a NATO member was a red line and all of the while they we ...[text shortened]... ria after invading 1/3 of the north. You like our government's criminal invasions though, don't you?
It NEVER works like that with barbarians like Putin, he wants to rebuild the Soviet Empire and will NEVER stop unless he is stopped militarily and he doesn't care how many millions of his own troops die for his goal.
So you must think we are totally stupid not to know that.
Appeasement NEVER works with dictators which is exactly what started both WW1 and WW2.
And there is no Putin propaganda that can counter that because Putin lies just like Trump.
@no1marauder saidWhy don't you just admit that the USA invasion of Syria and several other countries was a Crime Against Peace and we can proceed from there? I am fed up with you demonizing one side unfairly while condoning our government's invasions as if they were all just invasions.
A "whataboutism".
Why don't you just admit that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was a Crime Against Peace and we can proceed from there?
In a perfect world, violators of international law would face punishment but we don't live in that world. The question is now how to deal with the situation and end the war on as just terms as possible.
Although this is not a contest about who is the most evil you must admit both the USA and Russia have invaded countries. Both committed Crimes Against Peace. Admit it. That is all I ask, then we can have an honest discussion without stubborn double standards being held.
Is that too much to ask?
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@sonhouse saidUkraine enshrined NATO membership in their constitution. That was an existential threat to Russia.
Right, we are supposed to believe via your Putin propaganda machine there didn't need to be a war, maybe if say Ukraine just caved in and gave the whole country to Putin, then magically a peace would ensue.
It NEVER works like that with barbarians like Putin, he wants to rebuild the Soviet Empire and will NEVER stop unless he is stopped militarily and he doesn't care how ma ...[text shortened]... and WW2.
And there is no Putin propaganda that can counter that because Putin lies just like Trump.
Do you need a history lesson? The USA once put nukes in Turkey and it angered the USSR. The USSR "responded/retaliated" by putting nukes in Cuba.
Now......who started the Cuban missile crisis? Or should I call it the Turkish missile crisis? Simple question: Who started it?
@Metal-Brain saidFine, I admit the US has committed Crimes Against Peace.
Why don't you just admit that the USA invasion of Syria and several other countries was a Crime Against Peace and we can proceed from there? I am fed up with you demonizing one side unfairly while condoning our government's invasions as if they were all just invasions.
Although this is not a contest about who is the most evil you must admit both the USA and Russia have ...[text shortened]... have an honest discussion without stubborn double standards being held.
Is that too much to ask?
Now admit Putin did.
@no1marauder saidWHAT? That poor misunderstood person who just has his own citizens at heart?
Fine, I admit the US has committed Crimes Against Peace.
Now admit Putin did.
@no1marauder saidSure. I never denied it.
Fine, I admit the US has committed Crimes Against Peace.
Now admit Putin did.
Now who is going to hold these invaders accountable? And why is the most horrible invader trying to hold the other invader accountable? Isn't it like two organized crime syndicates battling it out while pretending to have some sort of moral high ground that is laughable?
Is one invader better than the other? If so, what makes one better than the other? Wasn't NATO expansion an existential threat to Russia?
@Metal-Brain saidNo, I don't think it was an "existential threat to Russia" but it was a poor and overly aggressive policy decision esp. after assurances had been given that it wouldn't be done.
Sure. I never denied it.
Now who is going to hold these invaders accountable? And why is the most horrible invader trying to hold the other invader accountable? Isn't it like two organized crime syndicates battling it out while pretending to have some sort of moral high ground that is laughable?
Is one invader better than the other? If so, what makes one better than the other? Wasn't NATO expansion an existential threat to Russia?
The West's support of the illegal overthrow of President Viktor Yanukovych was in the same vein.
Still, it does not justify the war.
@no1marauder saidI don't think you know how world organized syndicates work. The USA would have done the same thing as Russia under the same circumstances.
No, I don't think it was an "existential threat to Russia" but it was a poor and overly aggressive policy decision esp. after assurances had been given that it wouldn't be done.
The West's support of the illegal overthrow of President Viktor Yanukovych was in the same vein.
Still, it does not justify the war.
In other words, you have been brainwashed by anti Russia propaganda in the democrat party. In the exchange in the white house Zelensky was being an ingrate a hole. Trump was actually being too nice. He should have told Z to F off and beg the UK for free weapons to weaken Russia so they cannot fight USA imperialism.
Have you forgotten that Russia prevented the USA from overthrowing Assad in Syria? Russia did in Syria exactly what the USA did in Ukraine. Prevent a total invasion of the whole country of Syria..... by the USA. Do you need reminding of that or are you comfortable with the double standard?
@Metal-Brain saidI'm tired of your stupid, largely false "whataboutisms".
I don't think you know how world organized syndicates work. The USA would have done the same thing as Russia under the same circumstances.
In other words, you have been brainwashed by anti Russia propaganda in the democrat party. In the exchange in the white house Zelensky was being an ingrate a hole. Trump was actually being too nice. He should have told Z to F off an ...[text shortened]... yria..... by the USA. Do you need reminding of that or are you comfortable with the double standard?
I've made my opposition to US military incursions very clear. Russian ones deserve the same condemnation.
@no1marauder saidThat is a lie. You have NEVER made your opposition to US military incursions very clear.
I'm tired of your stupid, largely false "whataboutisms".
I've made my opposition to US military incursions very clear. Russian ones deserve the same condemnation.