$1000 donation to Iraq

Oh, by the way... I don't usually get away with it. Most people who actually know nothing... get really offended when I point out the obvious fact that they know nothing.:

are you insinuating that you know something?

if you look at your past posts here they do all contain insults or insinuated insults at the posters with an opposing viewpoint, which I don´t think helps having a reasonable discussion or your own arguments either.

Originally posted by belgianfreak
are you insinuating that you know something?

if you look at your past posts here they do all contain insults or insinuated insults at the posters with an opposing viewpoint, which I don´t think helps having a reasonable discussion or your own arguments either.

Valid point... Sorry.

My gripe and anger is from the idea that a "bid" means something. They do not. In MY world, and the world of business that I know, I have built 2400 houses for example... I have never once looked at a bid. I look for "Does this company have the Equipment to do this job? A 92 ft. crane, a backhoe, a bobcat? Do they have manpower? I need 3 men for a week. Not next month. Tomorrow. What is their financial statement? Am I going to get liened if i let this guy have the work? Is he up on his insurance? If one of his guys gets injured, am I in the poor house? Can he do this in the alloted 7 days? Has he done it for me before?

Any no to any of the above, and I find somebody who can meet my needs. I have let thousands of contracts. Never... Never have i even glanced at a bid. It means nothing. That's my world. Others might be different. When I saw the rant on "no Bids", "fair process" ... it just sends me into a "What the hell is this guy on about? Never done any construction before." We are talking "constructions" contracts, are we not?

If I have insulted anyone it is because i don't see anyone here talking about the world that i have lived in... in the construction business. Everyone is quite happy to harp politics with no knowledge of how to get a 4 billion dollar job done in a month. End of Rant.

Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Valid point... Sorry.

My gripe and anger is from the idea that a "bid" means something. They do not. In MY world, and the world of business that I know, I have built 2400 houses for example... I have never once looked at a bid. I look for "Does this company have the Equipment to do this job? A 92 ft. crane, a backhoe, a bobcat? Do they have manpow ...[text shortened]... politics with no knowledge of how to get a 4 billion dollar job done in a month. End of Rant.

but could the point not have been that the government official beneffited from giving the contract to the company that he did, a rather large back hander? (was that the point being made?) Would you not be upset if someone you employed (as we technically employ politicians) gave contracts to builders not on the terms you lay out (can they do the job well, fast enough, safely enough) but instead on which was going to pay the most into his own pocket behind your back? And wouldn't it annoy you even more if he then flashed that money in front of you just after quitting your employ? you don't sound like the kind of guy who'd take that lying down!

Taking the point to an extreme, what if he sabotaged some of the foundations just because he knows that then he can give the contract to the firm that he has a "special arangement" with, then making more money. I'm not saying that it is so, but once you start allowing people in positions of power and trust like politicians to take back handers how far are we from them starting wars because tey have a deal with the arms manufacturers, starting a depresion just after those who know (and will of course be very grateful) have got out of the market only to buy back in when it's at rock bottom...?

Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Valid point... Sorry.

My gripe and anger is from the idea that a "bid" means something. They do not. In MY world, and the world of business that I know, I have built 2400 houses for example... I have never once looked at a bid. I ...[text shortened]... how to get a 4 billion dollar job done in a month. End of Rant.

So, a man in your position has got no problem with a $ 1000 or maybe even a $10,000 donation to Iraq then ...

Originally posted by ivanhoe
So, a man in your position has got no problem with a $ 1000 or maybe even a $10,000 donation to Iraq then ...

Nope. If you are going to start a war and start killing people, spend whatever it takes to rebuild their country and get the hell out of town. Leaving a safe, stable environment with a workable government.

No problem at all. I was for the war. How could i be against it's cost?

Originally posted by belgianfreak
how far are we from them starting wars because tey have a deal with the arms manufacturers... etc...

Now see this is the point that is irritating. If you or someone will please show me the "hiding" and "theft" and "behind my back"... then sure. I'd be mad a s hell. If you know something I don't know... Please fill in the facts. < see very sarcastic post to stagefright on same rant >

How far are we from getting caught in a tornado and being flung into the land of Oz? How in the world can this even be thought of seriously. Unless you are holding out on that crystal ball thing again.

It's really very simple. If somebody screws up, it will be in tomorrows paper. I read the evidence. If they did wrong i support their arrest and never... ever... ever vote for them, or anyone associated with them. This is why our democracy depends on a free press. Should that fail, then we are lost anyway, so no use worrying.

Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Nope. If you are going to start a war and start killing people, spend whatever it takes to rebuild their country and get the hell out of town. Leaving a safe, stable environment with a workable government.

No problem at all. I was for the war. How could i be against it's cost?

I appreciate that attitude. I must agree that if you supported the war rthen you must stand behind supporting the concequences. Bravo sir.

It might not have rid the world of Saddam's rule, but would giving 87 billion + the cost of the war before that top a poor, starving African nation that has a struggling but sound and democratic government not have made more of a possitive difference? I appreciate that this may be impossqble to answer, comparing apples and oranges, but if the US plqn to use it's might to eleviate suffering in the world I hope it will not only do this by violent means. And I know that the US gives aid to contries already, but how much of that aid comes with conditions for trade agreements etc?

Originally posted by belgianfreak
I appreciate that attitude. I must agree that if you supported the war rthen you must stand behind supporting the concequences. Bravo sir.

It might not have rid the world of Saddam's rule, but would giving 87 billion + the cost of ...[text shortened]... w much of that aid comes with conditions for trade agreements etc?

Yea... always better to give to the needy. But... revenge. Revenge is sweeter than all the bliss of compassion. When you get hurt you need revenge or you will wither and die. This is why the US is so hated. Everyone needs revenge and the US is just a big, mean, ugly thing setting there... it is totally safe to hate it. So the world does. That's ok. But when the US needs revenge? God help Saddaam and anyone else who is stupid enough to poke their head up and yell "neener neener"! That poor bastard is doomed.

Which is why if i were france and germany i would be hoping to get real strong real quick. The old days are gone forever. Which is what they want. Hope it all works out... to OUR advantage... need just a little revenge here. In other words, when you make an enemy, don't be surprised when an enemy shows up.

If you or someone will please show me the "hiding" and "theft" and "behind my back"... then sure. I'd be mad as hell. If you know something I don't know... Please fill in the facts

origionall posted by stagefright, in this thread:

It's not just a coincidence that as Bush Sr.'s secretary of defence, Dick Cheney steered millions of dollars in government business to a private military contractor - whose parent company just happened to give him a high-paying job after he left the government. Cheney's interests in Halliburton are now calculated as being worth in excess of $50m...


this is the point I was refering to, that Dick gave contracts to a company, which then gave him a very well paid job after he finished his term in office. That smacks of bribery and corruption to me, and even if it were innocent how would we know. Maybe the free press, that you are right in saying is the corner stone of democracy (although it's never as unbiased as it should be) doesn't make a big issue of this because it he got the back hander after he finished his role in government, when he was out of the public's main view?

I'm sure you appreciate that the point on "starting wars to benefit arms dealer who'll be grateful" was an extreem illustration of why small transgressions of this nature canno be tolerated, because then where does it stop?

Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Nope. If you are going to start a war and start killing people, spend whatever it takes to rebuild their country and get the hell out of town. Leaving a safe, stable environment with a workable government.

No problem at all. I was for the war. How could i be against it's cost?

You must be a very rich man StarValleyWy, donating $ 10,000 to Iraq !

Originally posted by belgianfreak
origionall posted by stagefright, in this thread:

It's not just a coincidence that as Bush Sr.'s secretary of defence, Dick Cheney steered millions of dollars in government business to a private military contractor - whose parent company just happened to give him a high-paying job after he left the government. Cheney's interests in Halliburton are ...[text shortened]... why small transgressions of this nature canno be tolerated, because then where does it stop?

One sure method of knowing is to look and see that by hiring Haliburton... they all lost a fortune. Cheney's money before [said screwup] was worth more than after. Why? Furthermore... they all knew they would lose a fortune. (See afore mentioned free press) . But if your country asks you to do a job that you and 1 other company in the world [Bechtel] is qualified to do, what are you going to do? Say... "geez... sorry. We will lose our shirts if we help you. Sorry." I don't think so.

Originally posted by StarValleyWy
Yea... always better to give to the needy. But... revenge. Revenge is sweeter than all the bliss of compassion. When you get hurt you need revenge or you will wither and die. This is why the US is so hated. Everyone needs revenge and the US is just a big, mean, ugly thing setting there... it is totally safe to hate it. So the world does. That's ok. But ...[text shortened]... evenge here. In other words, when you make an enemy, don't be surprised when an enemy shows up.

revenge? for what exactly? not saying he was sorry that 9/11 happened?

and does your post not show why portions of the world fear and hate the US? That the foreign policy is "you didn't back me up, so now I' going to squash you" "you didn't sell us your bananas at the low price we asked for, so now we'll not buy anything from your country and send it into depression"

an example of how low it can get (forgive me if some of the details aren't 100% correct, it's late): britain & the US had a disagreement over subsidising steel manufacture. If the US did subsidise it's steel works it would ensure US jobs, but threaten UK jobs. Fair enough, thats free commrece. So the UK said that it would tax imported US steel so that UK steel was still competative. Also fair enough. So the US said that if the UK taxed incoming US steel it would stop buying bananas from a certain 3rd world country (thqt used to be q colony, not set up as independent democracy) that relied very heavily on banana sales to the US, sending it into depression & starvation - that is bully tactics and below the belt.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

You must be a very rich man StarValleyWy, donating $ 10,000 to Iraq !

Proves your lack of understanding. Of the 1000 "for each family" ... corporate and business taxes pay all but about $11.50. We pay "sales tax", franchise taxes, and a million hidden taxes to make up the other money. But yea, I can afford 10,000 or whatever. Again, If I vote for the war I have to be responsible for the mess. That's not too hard to figure, is it? I really don't like you Ivan. Go take a hike.

Originally posted by belgianfreak
revenge? for what exactly? not saying he was sorry that 9/11 happened?

and does your post not show why portions of the world fear and hate the US? That the foreign policy is "you didn't back me up, so now I' going to squash you" "you didn't sell us your bananas at the low price we asked for, so now we'll not buy anything from your country and ...[text shortened]... s to the US, sending it into depression & starvation - that is bully tactics and below the belt.

Yes. He is the first of many. Iraq will make a quite nice airport over the next 50 years. Unless I miss my guess. There will be plenty more to follow. I think.

Yea... that's the way it will work in the future... I think. That's why i said the old days are gone forever. In the future there will be many, many fights over trade. The UK is on our side. Unless they dump Blair. Then they are in the same boat as france... over time. I think.

Notice i don't want a million rants... If you have a different idea, just state it. This is rather boring. My opinion barely interests me... I can't imagine it mattering to anyone else.

Notice i don't want a million rants... If you have a different idea, just state it. This is rather boring. My opinion barely interests me... I can't imagine it mattering to anyone else.[/b]

what's that? your argument is slipping, so now you've slipped back into feigning disinterest on a topic that you've posted more than anyone else. And you've had to resort to insults because you realise that your position is lost. Touche! My point. You have been screwed by your own words and your argument is clear to all to be hollow.

"they will be the first of many" "we will destroy all those that oppose us' - are you listening to yourself? Gone is the veneer of "making the world a safer place from brutal regiemes". Now we see your tones of "our way or we'll put you to the sword".

Now you know why the world doesn't like America. It is slowly being devided into 2 camps, those that stand against it's bullying and are punished for it, and those that succum to the bullying and do as America wants and hate America for making them a lapdog. 2 camps, 1 common dislike.

America is the most powerful nation on earth, but it is not more powerful than the rest of the world and that's what it is setting itself up against. Like the class bully, it's all fun and laughs at anothers expense until you realise that you are alone & outnumbered, and the 'allies' you had thought you had under your thumb are no longer afraid and stand up to you.

Fortunatly I don't believe it wll come to this. Americans are not fools, although there are of course exceptions, and all it takes is a regeme change and it'll back to the noble US Rousavelt intended to create after WW2.