22 Jul 05
2 edits
Originally posted by Freddie2004Well what he's saying is that if you believe that the British (insert you own nationality here) are best then you have to look down on everyone else, and by implication people who are British but whose ethnic background is different to the default British ethnicity (ie. white anglo-saxon protestant). This then opens the door to more open forms of racism. So emotionally tieing you to the system you live under and stopping you blaming the people who are really at fault for the mess you live in. As you may have guessed I think he's right.
i dunno but i reckon you are the only one who understands what that means!
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by DeepThoughtThanks.....I think with the advent of more and more diasporic communities the days of ethnocentricity are numbered and one day (not in our lifetime) racism will be a thing of the past
Well what he's saying is that if you believe that the British (insert you own nationality here) are best then you have to look down on everyone else, and by implication people who are British but whose ethnic background is different to the default British ethnicity (ie. white anglo-saxon protestant). This then opens the door to more open forms of racis ...[text shortened]... who are really at fault for the mess you live in. As you may have guessed I think he's right.
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by DeepThoughtFierce nationalism is also 1 of the 14 characteristics of Fascism, as written by Laurence Britt.
Well what he's saying is that if you believe that the British (insert you own nationality here) are best then you have to look down on everyone else, and by implication people who are British but whose ethnic background is different to the default British ethnicity (ie. white anglo-saxon protestant). This then opens the door to more open forms of racis ...[text shortened]... who are really at fault for the mess you live in. As you may have guessed I think he's right.
Some interesting reading here...
http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm
D
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by SerendipityPatriotism should not be conflated with feelings of ethnic superiority.
who thinks that the ideology of patriotism encourages feelings of ethnic superioty and is there for an encoded racism?
Patriotism is loyalty to one's own country. You can be patriotic without feeling that your own ethnic group is superior to any other. In modern multicultural societies such as the US, UK, Canada and Australia, there is less temptation to identify the nation, as a political entity, with a people, as an ethnic entity.
One of the major idealogical moves made by the Nazis, for example, was to assert the identity of the German nation with the German people. Hence Hitler's attempted justification for the annexation of Austria and Sudetenland.
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by dfm65Do you think that what lays under the banner of patriotism such as flag waving and hostility towards other countries in athlectics such as the olympics, football,etc is conducive to ethnic equality?
Patriotism should not be conflated with feelings of ethnic superiority.
Patriotism is loyalty to one's own country. You can be patriotic without feeling that your own ethnic group is superior to any other. In modern multicultural societies such as the US, UK, Canada and Australia, there is less temptation to identify the nation, as a political entity, with ...[text shortened]... n people. Hence Hitler's attempted justification for the annexation of Austria and Sudetenland.
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22 Jul 05
Thanks.....I think with the advent of more and more diasporic communities the days of ethnocentricity are numbered and one day (not in our lifetime) racism will be a thing of the pasti'm am not as optimistic. whether it is ethnicity, religion, or mere appearance, man will ostracize anyone not conforming.
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by tonytiger41we're evolving socially with our ideologies so it will happen, wheter it happens before we destroy ourselves is another matter
i'm am not as optimistic. whether it is ethnicity, religion, or mere appearance, man will ostracize anyone not conforming.
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by SerendipityThere are a lot of people (many at this site) supporting either Australia or England in the Ashes cricket series currently taking place. I am, naturally, supporting my country. That doesn't mean that i think Australians are superior to the English (I don't). It just means i support my country on the sports field.
Do you think that what lays under the banner of patriotism such as flag waving and hostility towards other countries in athlectics such as the olympics, football,etc is conducive to ethnic equality?
Soccer (football) is unfortunately notorious for attracting racist elements among the supporters for national and other teams. But most soccer fans just go to support their chosen team. There's no reason to think that support of a national team leads to thoughts of ethnic superiority.
In fact, one of the ideals/goals of the Olympic movement is to bring nations together in a peaceful atmosphere. Sure politicans try to subvert this, but overall it succeeds i think.
22 Jul 05
1 edit
Originally posted by SerendipityI think there are different forms of patriotism. I grew up in a society (West Berlin in the 70s/80s) where everything which smelled of patriotism was seen as evil. But when I moved to Norway, I found out that there is a form of patriotism which doesn't have to do with feelings of superiority, but is about loving your own country, with its positive and negative sides. You can see both kinds of patriotism here (edit: meaning "here in Norway", not "here at TFC", although that would probably be true as well). The "superiority" kind is exclusive, the "love" kind is inclusive. So I don't see patriotism in general as bad anymore (even though any kind of patriotism is still quite alien to me). But I agree that the kind which leads to feelings of superiority is bad and has a lot in common with racism.
who thinks that the ideology of patriotism encourages feelings of ethnic superioty and is there for an encoded racism?
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by dfm65the olympics may bring countries together but it does so with elitist aims, ie who wins. Who wins shouldn't matter just the unification of nation states should matter. Also if you do win what do you recieve, a gold medal. Gold is linked to the atrocities of colonialism and medals to the atrocities of war.
There are a lot of people (many at this site) supporting either Australia or England in the Ashes cricket series currently taking place. I am, naturally, supporting my country. That doesn't mean that i think Australians are superior to the English (I don't). It just means i support my country on the sports field.
Soccer (football) is unfortunately notori ...[text shortened]... in a peaceful atmosphere. Sure politicans try to subvert this, but overall it succeeds i think.
This all smacks of capitalist ethics, winning and gold
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by Serendipityand just who is going to be interested in sporting competitions in which there isn't any winning and losing? do you think thousands of people would pay money to watch the Olympics, the Ashes, the World Cup, NBA basketball and so on if all teams weren't doing their best to win? having winners and losers is NOT elitism - elitism is link to exclusion that is not based on performance or some legitimate criterion such as geographic location. the Olympics tries to include as many nations as possible.
the olympics may bring countries together but it does so with elitist aims, ie who wins. Who wins shouldn't matter just the unification of nation states should matter. Also if you do win what do you recieve, a gold medal. Gold is linked to the atrocities of colonialism and medals to the atrocities of war.
This all smacks of capitalist ethics, winning and gold
Gold has been valued since millenia before capitalism was invented. almost all societies have substances that are considered valuable - gold, jade, cowrie shells - whatever. Medals are awarded for merit in many spheres of activity, not just war. Such as sporting prowess.
People have valued both winning and gold since time immemorial - it's not merely a trait of capitalism.
22 Jul 05
Originally posted by WeadleyA national identity that is anti other national identities..... there should be only one country and we'll call it the world
Not if the Country your patriotic to is made up of various ethnic groups that have melted into one national identity.