Originally posted by SeitseShut up. Now we're going to open a thread about the
Cameron's sole purpose is to make a truckload of dollars.
You guys are quite flattering the guy by discussing something
that is simply not there. Too much credit, too much,
nihilistic anarcho-primitivism in Britney Spears' lyrics.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungAbsolutely incorrect. Rocky is all about the triumph of the poor man against the odds. American Dream wish fulfilment. Keeps the masses quiet. They cheer and have a beer and go to work next day. But despite having a message, it's not propaganda, in my opinion.
There is no message in Rocky.
I'd consider Avatar propaganda if it behaved like other propaganda: boosting the Home Team, demonising the Other, etc. (Chuck Norris films, I think, could be considered propaganda). But despite it's obvious failings, Avatar is a little more sophisticated than that: it problematises the situation rather than providing a simplistic, one-sided narrative. (The general's speech within Avatar is a good example of propaganda style: 'those gooks are out to get us, we need to get them first'đ.
You seem to think that any film that seeks to get people to 'talk about issues' is propaganda; I disagree.
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageHow did the creators hope to "keep the masses quiet" with the movie? How do you know this? Is there an interview I can watch where the creators of Rocky talk about how they created the movie to keep the masses quiet?
Absolutely incorrect. Rocky is all about the triumph of the poor man against the odds. American Dream wish fulfilment. Keeps the masses quiet. They cheer and have a beer and go to work next day. But despite having a message, it's not propaganda, in my opinion.
I'd consider Avatar propaganda if it behaved like other propaganda: boosting the Home Team that any film that seeks to get people to 'talk about issues' is propaganda; I disagree.
Cameron talks openly about how he was using the movie to get environmentally friendly results from the audience. I provided the address already.
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Originally posted by StarrmanI never claimed blue replaced posters. What are you talking about?
I was referring to the two nouns 'propaganda' and 'posters'. You can't use 'blue' as an adjective and then claim it replaces 'posters'. Not only this, but your example would have to read 'cars blue' to fit the original post, which clearly doesn't make sense.
And why is it that you continue to post links to sites that contain the word propaganda as if t ds the propaganda definition, of which I've already mentioned I have no concern.
It is extremely common to use the word propaganda as an adjective - I'm only finding out now no dictionary lists it as such. However I am also finding that it's a common rule in English to use nouns as adjectives e.g. coal mine.
I was using the word as an adjective. You misunderstood.
Originally posted by StarrmanI was giving example after example of how the word was used as an adjective similarly to how I used it.
I was referring to the two nouns 'propaganda' and 'posters'. You can't use 'blue' as an adjective and then claim it replaces 'posters'. Not only this, but your example would have to read 'cars blue' to fit the original post, which clearly doesn't make sense.
And why is it that you continue to post links to sites that contain the word propaganda as if t ...[text shortened]... ds the propaganda definition, of which I've already mentioned I have no concern.
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageCameron's Home Team are the environmentalists and other lefties, not the mining companies and marines. It is a simplistic one sided narrative. It was created to be that way. As Cameron says, the noble savage does not exist, but he put it in his movie anyway intentionally to get the public to focus on environmentalism.
Absolutely incorrect. Rocky is all about the triumph of the poor man against the odds. American Dream wish fulfilment. Keeps the masses quiet. They cheer and have a beer and go to work next day. But despite having a message, it's not propaganda, in my opinion.
I'd consider Avatar propaganda if it behaved like other propaganda: boosting the Home Team that any film that seeks to get people to 'talk about issues' is propaganda; I disagree.
Originally posted by AThousandYoungI take it you concede that Rocky is propaganda (by your definition) as well as all films intended to affect an audience emotionally or intellectually. Then there's Starship Troopers and The Matrix ...
Cameron's Home Team are the environmentalists and other lefties, not the mining companies and marines. It is a simplistic one sided narrative. It was created to be that way. As Cameron says, the noble savage does not exist, but he put it in his movie anyway intentionally to get the public to focus on environmentalism.
It's a mistake to assume all environmentalists are 'lefties'. Some of them are as conservative as you can get. In fact radical environmentalism may be the ultimate form of conservatism.
What specific environmental agenda is Avatar pushing? It seems to invoke some sort of vague panenvironmentalist spirituality, but that's about it. There's no realistic solution to the problem (eg. 'kill the capitalists'đ so it can hardly mobilise people. The film is a fantasy, an opiate.
However, it is at least not entirely simplistic and one-sided as it does not portray all Americans as bad, and it doesn't portray all the savages as good. Perhaps it is unidimensional in that all the characters are [/i]flat[/i], but that's a question of creativity, not propaganda (by my definition).
Anyway, this could go round and round forever. I understand your viewpoint, even though I disagree with it; I hope you understand mine ...
Originally posted by AThousandYoungDidn't see this comment; sorry.
How did the creators hope to "keep the masses quiet" with the movie? How do you know this? Is there an interview I can watch where the creators of Rocky talk about how they created the movie to keep the masses quiet?
Cameron talks openly about how he was using the movie to get environmentally friendly results from the audience. I provided the address already.
It's a function of mass entertainment to keep the masses quiet. Bread and circuses, you know. Think about the 'feel good' product: you watch some mindless entertainment; you 'feel good'; any propensity you might have toward challenging the status quo is neutralised.
Unless the 'environmentally friendly results' are channeled toward some specific political outcome, they are meaningless. A blue Ben Stiller with braids doesn't quite cut it. Greenpeace films are propaganda; 'An Inconvenient Truth' was propaganda; 'Avatar'? About as politically effective as 'Dances With Wolves'.