The post that was quoted here has been removedOf course you didn't mention churches, because 18 out of 27 dioceses sounds much better than 50 priests out of 20000 or something like that. Intellectual honesty was never your forte.
All surveys I've seen show that Catholic priests are actually less likely than the average person to abuse children and as likely as Protestant priests. If you have proper information otherwise, you can post it here. Else, you're just another rabid fool that falls prey to the spotlight fallacy that the media feeds you.
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And look at the link in the page you've quoted:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8654789.stm
"But current research and expert opinion suggest that men within the Catholic Church may be no more likely than others to abuse, and that the prevalence of abuse by priests has fallen sharply in the last 20-30 years."
Of course, the focus in the article then changes to conspiracy theories about major cover-ups without much evidence, really.
And the number of priests?
"150 priests in Germany have been accused of abuse alleged to have taken place since 1990. That is about 0.1% of the 138,000"
150 out of 138000 doesn't sound as nice as 18 out of 27 but, hey, who cares? It's rife!
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Originally posted by PalynkaStats are great and as you, I'm sure are aware, numbers can be shown to do whatever the statistician is trying to get across. It still doesn't excuse the fact that often the "issues" are swept under the organizations rug with the hopes that no one finds out.
And look at the link in the page you've quoted:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8654789.stm
"But current research and expert opinion suggest that men within the Catholic Church may be no more likely than others to abuse, and that the prevalence of abuse by priests has fallen sharply in the last 20-30 years."
Of course, the focus in the ...[text shortened]...
150 out of 138000 doesn't sound as nice as 18 out of 27 but, hey, who cares? It's rife!
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Originally posted by PalynkaOk, but it is pretty clear here that the priestly way of life is both a hiding place, a draw and a convenience to pedophiles. It is also clear that historically, the Catholic dioceses do a terrible job in dealing with the problem appropriately. I'd say that it is news and worth mentioning if one is to bring up both molestation and the Catholic Church. There's a real problem there.
Of course you didn't mention churches, because 18 out of 27 dioceses sounds much better than 50 priests out of 20000 or something like that. Intellectual honesty was never your forte.
All surveys I've seen show that Catholic priests are actually less likely than the average person to abuse children and as likely as Protestant priests. If you have proper i re just another rabid fool that falls prey to the spotlight fallacy that the media feeds you.
If the generalization bothers you, I'd say it is a well-deserved stamp. I would not trust any of the surveys having to do with this problem. Anywhere.
There are other convenient places for pedophiles as well, yes. There's also way more victims than the ones we "know" about and way more offenders than we know about.
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Originally posted by SunburntWell, that sounds right in abstract but it clashes with reality.
Ok, but it is pretty clear here that the priestly way of life is both a hiding place, a draw and a convenience to pedophiles. It is also clear that historically, the Catholic dioceses do a terrible job in dealing with the problem appropriately. I'd say that it is news and worth mentioning if one is to bring up both molestation and the Catholic Church. Ther way more victims than the ones we "know" about and way more offenders than we know about.
No matter how much you and CFT want them to be more guilty and pedophilic, it all comes down to cold, hard numbers. Let me repeat from the BBC link:
"But current research and expert opinion suggest that men within the Catholic Church may be no more likely than others to abuse, and that the prevalence of abuse by priests has fallen sharply in the last 20-30 years."
If you don't trust any surveys anywhere, like you say, then you are going to be a victim of your own prejudices. I hope you see the truth in this.
Those that have done so should be tried and jailed, nobody is disputing that. But the idea that the Catholic Church is a pedophilic paradise is just BS. There is as much there as in other faiths and much, much less than in schools. Of course, pedophilia in schools doesn't seem to sell as well to Anglo-Saxon audiences as pedophilia in the Catholic Church.
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"But current research and expert opinion suggest that men within the Catholic Church may be no more likely than others to abuse, and that the prevalence of abuse by priests has fallen sharply in the last 20-30 years."
But are they still not "protected", if there are no "leaks", from the normal prosecution that lay people are subject to? The churches (and it's not just the Catholic church) still have a habit (no pun intended) of turning a blind eye. If the instituon is caught in it's deceipt it may be a different story, if not caught the perps tend to be left alone or "retired" to seclution.
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Originally posted by Great Big SteesI don't think anyone defends that, but the issue remains how big this cover-up was. The report that CFT quoted (to say what?) says that the Church has made it standard procedure to forward the complaints to the Gardai (the Irish police).
"But current research and expert opinion suggest that men within the Catholic Church may be no more likely than others to abuse, and that the prevalence of abuse by priests has fallen sharply in the last 20-30 years."
But are they still not "protected", if there are no "leaks", from the normal prosecution that lay people are subject to? The church ferent story, if not caught the perps tend to be left alone or "retired" to seclution.
A few may have been involved in such protection and they should be tried and jailed, but that's certainly not the whole of the Church or the billion of faithful.
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Originally posted by PalynkaWell, that sounds right in abstract but it clashes with reality.I don't think they are MORE guilty than any other pedophile. I didn't say that. Or more likely to abuse kids more than any other sick person.
No matter how much you and CFT want them to be more guilty and pedophilic, it all comes down to cold, hard numbers. Let me repeat from the BBC link:
"But current research and expert opinion suggest that men within the Catholic Church may be no more likely than others to abuse, and that doesn't seem to sell as well to Anglo-Saxon audiences as pedophilia in the Catholic Church.
I don't trust surveys when determining the hard cold truth in pedophile numbers. Anywhere. Cause and effect is a blurry thing and can make surveys a bit whacked so surveys where there are actual REAL numbers are where I prefer to draw FACTS.
I do not believe the Catholic Church is a pedohilic paradise, either. I believe there are certain places/jobs/vocations/activities that pedo's frequent more often for their convenience to hiding and access to children. I believe anywhere this happens there is a level of dysfunction in the foundation of the organization - and here, this is important, where there is so much trust involved. So it is an emotional issue.
When you have an institution of any kind that repeatedly harbors, forgives and in turn, enables this kind of abuse of kids, you have a problem. Period. But I did not say it doesn't happen elsewhere like other types of abuse or vile acts.
If the argument is about whether the Catholic Church is the runner-up on this issue or if more kids are being abused in your local neighborhood, the answer is probably simple. Kids are abused everywhere and much more close to home than in the Catholic Church. I have no numbers, just experience in life. I'm sure most people know several people who were abused as children close to us.
Crap, now I'm all bummed out. 😞
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The post that was quoted here has been removedActually it was you who told me what a staunch catholic your wife was, if you really want to go there.
I told you I was brought up catholic, then you make cracks about priests and alter boys.
That is the kind of person you are!
Now you try to put across a silly statement that Priests are more likely to be pedophiles. Well they come in all walks of life, and wear all kind of uniforms.
If you were just looking to live'n things up. IT LOOKS LIKE IT WORKED!!!
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
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Originally posted by PalynkaI am in no way meaning to single out any particular religion (or their followers) all I'm saying is that there seems to be "coverups" and that can only be done at a level above that of the wrongdoer. Should the institutions not want to "come clean" concerning what will eventually be found out (proactive instead of reactive)? These kinds of coverups hurt both the institutions and the followers.
I don't think anyone defends that, but the issue remains how big this cover-up was. The report that CFT quoted (to say what?) says that the Church has made it standard procedure to forward the complaints to the Gardai (the Irish police).
A few may have been involved in such protection and they should be tried and jailed, but that's certainly not the whole of the Church or the billion of faithful.
I'm done now. I've said my piece. Time to move on to other important GF threads. Maybe I'll go check out the religion forum.
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Originally posted by SuzianneCorrect: Abuse is abuse!
You find parents hitting their kids just as repugnant as child abuse, rape and torture?
wow.
In a perfect world, they would have the same done back to them.
An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth.
You think hitting a child who can not defend themselves is NOT ABUSE?
IMO...They should have the children taken from them.