28 Jan 04
2 edits
Varq-I was raised as a Catholic until I was 13,when I had the great good sense to get out -smartest decision I ever made. That's what the RC church has been all about for all the centuries it has inflicted itself on the world. Guilt trips,suppressed emotions and feelings,fear of death(because they fear life even more),mind control,hatred,intolerance,prejudice-this is all they have given the world,with little,if any,off-setting good in return. If there was a real,historical J.C.,he would be appalled at what his vision has been perverted into. I know all the Bible-thumpers will be howling for my blood,but I really don't give a crap. You all can take your psalms,your amens,and your John3:16,and put 'em all where the sun don't shine,cause Sundown316 says you're all a bunch of wusses for allowing yourselves to be brainwashed and lead by the nose like a flock of mindless sheep. And that's the bottom line,'cause Sundown said so!
28 Jan 04
Originally posted by sundown316Sundown: "If there was a real,historical J.C.,he would be appalled at what his vision has been perverted into."
Varq-I was raised as a Catholic until I was 13,when I had the great good sense to get out -smartest decision I ever made. That's what the RC church has been all about for all the centuries it has inflicted itself on the world. Guilt trips,suppressed emotions and feelings,fear of death(because they fear life even more),mind control,hatred,intolerance,prej ...[text shortened]... by the nose like a flock of mindless sheep. And that's the bottom line,'cause Sundown said so!
Did you throw away His vision too ?
.
28 Jan 04
Originally posted by Vargi'm no Christian, but i think its kinda cool. the concept of a god entering his creation and willingly being tortured to death to save it is pure genius - one of the great literary creations of all time. reminds me of a joke:
Don't you think that walking around with a representation of a human nailed to a bit of wood around your neck is slightly morbid?
the long lost missing first page of the bible is recovered in an archeological dig in Israel. it reads 'this is a work of fiction. any resemblance of the characters to any person living or dead is purely coincidental'...
28 Jan 04
1 edit
Originally posted by VargAnything goes when you're privy to the T-R-U-T-H, don't you know?
Don't you think that walking around with a representation of a human nailed to a bit of wood around your neck is slightly morbid?
I think it's more than slightly morbid. It's extremely bizarre. Each to their own I suppose. (I sure wish more Christians would reciprocate that sentiment!)ðŸ˜
Sundance316: "[Y]ou're all a bunch of wusses for allowing yourselves to be brainwashed and lead by the nose like a flock of mindless sheep. And that's the bottom line,'cause Sundown said so!"
Why don't you stop beating around the bush? Tell us how you really feel Sundance!
29 Jan 04
Ivanhoe-Jesus' "vision" was purely political,and neither religious or spiritual.To restore the House of David to the throne of Israel,and drive out the hated Romans,that was his agenda. If you told Jesus,or any other Jew of that era, that they were the "Son of God",they probably would have stoned you to death for blasphemy. What passes for Jesus message in the RC canon is what Paul turned it into,as he didn't like the idea of a sword-swinging redeemer. Instead he turned JC into a pacifist wimp,because that image would be easier to foist on the gullible.And that is why the Catholic "God" is a milksop,fit to be worshipped only by old women and little chuldren. As for myself,I never lost sight of his vision,because I never bought into it from day 1.
29 Jan 04
Originally posted by sundown316
Ivanhoe-Jesus' "vision" was purely political,and neither religious or spiritual.To restore the House of David to the throne of Israel,and drive out the hated Romans,that was his agenda. If you told Jesus,or any other Jew of that era, that they were the "Son of God",they probably would have stoned you to death for blasphemy. What passes for Jesus mess ...[text shortened]... ldren. As for myself,I never lost sight of his vision,because I never bought into it from day 1.
Sundown: "Guilt trips,suppressed emotions and feelings,fear of death(because they fear life even more),mind control,hatred,intolerance,prejudice-"
How do you know this is wrong ? Who learned you to look upon these things as being wrong ?
.
29 Jan 04
Originally posted by sundown316Sundown: "If you told Jesus,or any other Jew of that era, that they were the "Son of God",they probably would have stoned you to death for blasphemy."
Ivanhoe-Jesus' "vision" was purely political,and neither religious or spiritual.To restore the House of David to the throne of Israel,and drive out the hated Romans,that was his agenda. If you told Jesus,or any other Jew of that era, that they were the "Son of God",they probably would have stoned you to death for blasphemy. What passes for Jesus mess ...[text shortened]... ldren. As for myself,I never lost sight of his vision,because I never bought into it from day 1.
Jezus told the Jews that He was the Son of God. In fact He claimed to be God himself. He was not stoned to death but crucified for stating just that. So what you said is absolutely true.
29 Jan 04
Originally posted by VargTo me what makes the "representation" crazy is how we turn the scene of execution into ornate jewelry with ornate cuts, diamonds and gold. The more ornate the better. Can you imagine the reactions if we did that to say the electric chair or the guillotine?
Don't you think that walking around with a representation of a human nailed to a bit of wood around your neck is slightly morbid?
29 Jan 04
Originally posted by kirksey957
To me what makes the "representation" crazy is how we turn the scene of execution into ornate jewelry with ornate cuts, diamonds and gold. The more ornate the better. Can you imagine the reactions if we did that to say the electric chair or the guillotine?
Today the Cross is worn by pop stars and non-beleiving youths as jewelry with lots of glitter and gold. What does that tell you ?
29 Jan 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeI do not differentiate between believing and non-believing as the issue at hand is that Christianity can be marketed and $old. I do not see much difference between Madonna writhing on the floor with dangling crosses around her neck and these knuckle-head TV evangelists selling their own special brand of crap with Jesus stamped on it to legitimize it. ðŸ˜
Today the Cross is worn by pop stars and non-beleiving youths as jewelry with lots of glitter and gold. What does that tell you ?
29 Jan 04
3 edits
Originally posted by ivanhoeIvanhoe-are you saying these things are right? How can you condone sexual repression and all the other evils the RC has created or abetted over the centuries? You want a list? How about the sack of Jeruselum in 1099,in which 60,000 people,most of them Christians,were butchered in cold blood by the Crusaders? How about the wanton destruction of the Great Library of Alexandria,and over 180,000 scrolls,most of them one of a kind knowledge,by a mob of unwashed,illiterate peasants? How about the Albigensian Crusade,in which 200,000 people were murdered,and the most advanced area of Europe plunged back into howling barbarism? How about the total destuction of at least 3 major civilizations in Central and South America? How about the Church's involvement in the African slave trade? How about the Church turning a blind eye to the horrors of the Holocaust,by order of Pope Pius XII,one of the most rabid anti-Semites in history. How about the treatment of women and blacks as sub-human? The Magdalene Houses of Ireland with their kidnapping,enslavement,sexual abuse and brutalizing of scores of young girls? Now,you tell me,what,if anything,has the RC Church ever done to right any of these wrongs,besides a few token and totally bogus apologies? Now,with all the horror stories about pervo priests coming out,and the Churches attempts to whitewash the sickness,it all comes to a head. And you're trying to tell me there is nothing wrong with any of this? I find it hard to believe.
Sundown: "Guilt trips,suppressed emotions and feelings,fear of death(because they fear life even more),mind control,hatred,intolerance,prejudice-"
How do you know this is wrong ? Who learned you to look upon these things as being wrong ?
.
29 Jan 04
1 edit
Originally posted by kirksey957I've been thinking lately about the image of Christianity in the States.
I do not differentiate between believing and non-believing as the issue at hand is that Christianity can be marketed and $old. I do not see much difference between Madonna writhing on the floor with dangling crosses around her neck and ...[text shortened]... pecial brand of crap with Jesus stamped on it to legitimize it. ðŸ˜
First of all Christianity is linked with the ones in power especially the Republican Party. It is considered to be the religion or ideology of the political and economical powerfull. Christianity is therefore linked with right-winged and extreme right-winged policies, conservative anti-social social policies. You mention these television evangelists who are deceiving and exploiting uneducated mostly poor people and giving Christianity a name even more "evil".
The image of hand clapping, sandal kissing, hypocritical, deceiving, "money raising" Christians is not far away. You can add the past of the Christian Churches including the Roman Catholic Church, the rattle snake dancing people in the middle of nowhere, the abortion doctors killed by fundamentalists, the insane "Christian" sekts with their own interpretation of the Gospel and I guess the picture isn't exactly very rosy or attractive and I'm afraid it is far from complete. Not a pretty sight ..... You've probably read in one of my posts that I decided to be a Christian about 14 years ago. My social views were "progressive" as we call liberal ideas here in Europe and they still are. When the progressives in Europe accepted the Culture of Death I decided that I could not be progressive in that field anymore. I'm what you call conservative on these issues. Every progressive was conservative regarding these issues, until they decided that it wasn't progressive any more. Oh well, ....
For me it would be impossible to vote for an American Democratic politician because they advocate the Culture of Death, except for the death penalty. I appreciate and support their views on social issues, special interests issues etc, but I cannot accept their views concerning issues about life and death. The Republicans on the other hand do not support the Culture of Death, except for the death penalty. I cannot vote for the Republicans either, because they have awfull social policies and they are puppets of the special interests groups.
Is there a political party in the States were I would fit in ?
29 Jan 04
Originally posted by ivanhoeWell you said quite a mouthful there. Actually you had one part backwards. At least over here, it was fundamentalists killing abortion doctors whom I prefer to call obstetricians. One was recently put to death in Florida for this. OK, to the question as to whether you would fit it. I don't know. Hell, you fit in where you can. The genius of the American experiment is that of tolerance. We are allowed to be crazy, heretical, and even stupid in this country. I live in a part of the country where I probably don't fit in. That's why I get on this site (really). But whether I fit in or not doesn't matter as 1) it isn't illegal to be an outsider 2) they can't kill me for not fitting in and 3) there is always something to be learned by not being in the "in" crowd, though at times it feels that it comes with a price. I live in an area where there is snake handling as part of worship. While I think this is a little "out there" for my personal taste, hell, I've got to respect the fact that they ain't going to sleep in church like I do sometimes.
I've been thinking lately about the image of Christianity in the States.
First of all Christianity is linked with the ones in power especially the Republican Party. It is considered to be the religion or ideology of the political and economical powerfull. Christianity is therefore linked with right-winged and extreme right-winged policies, conservati ...[text shortened]... ecial interests groups.
Is there a political party in the States were I would fit in ?
29 Jan 04
1 edit
Originally posted by kirksey957I made an edit about who killed who. Especially when we are discussing these things it is important to determine who kills who.
Well you said quite a mouthful there. Actually you had one part backwards. At least over here, it was fundamentalists killing abortion doctors whom I prefer to call obstetricians. One was recently put to death in Florida for this. OK, ...[text shortened]... t that they ain't going to sleep in church like I do sometimes.
I agree with you that obstetrician sounds a lot better than abortion doctor. However I don't think a midwife wants to be called obstetrician anymore when an abortion doctor is called obstetrician.
I guess we can't please them all.