Originally posted by VargThe Crucifix is one big complaint against the Culture of Death. To prove that the Culture of Life will win in the end He rose from the dead, defeating death.
Don't you think that walking around with a representation of a human nailed to a bit of wood around your neck is slightly morbid?
You understood only half the story Varg, no wonder your interpretation is flawed ......
Ivanhoe,et al: Just to set the record straight,altho I am an atheist(and proud of it),I am not a card-carrying one. I can respect individual faith and believe. What I oppose are organized religions with their control freak mentalities,their ruthless attempts to destroy free speech,personal liberties,and the right to self-determination,all of which are poison to them. The fundamentalist crackpots,of whatever faith,are of the same stripe,and I hold them in the same contempt I do the R.C. church. I've lived my entire life by the code of:"My life,my rules. End of story",and I will continue to do so to my last gasp. The 316 which I have on all my internet handles is a deliberate tweaking of the Bible-thumpers. I will oppose any attempts,by anybody,to control what I read,watch,think,do or say.
Originally posted by sundown316Sundown: "I will oppose any attempts,by anybody,to control what I read,watch,think,do or say."
Ivanhoe,et al: Just to set the record straight,altho I am an atheist(and proud of it),I am not a card-carrying one. I can respect individual faith and believe. What I oppose are organized religions with their control freak mentalities,their ruthless attempts to destroy free speech,personal liberties,and the right to self-determination,all of which are poi ...[text shortened]... le-thumpers. I will oppose any attempts,by anybody,to control what I read,watch,think,do or say.
That's a good start. What's next ? ....... or do you think that you've reached the finish of your quest already ?
Originally posted by ivanhoeNo, you missed the joke.
The Crucifix is one big complaint against the Culture of Death. To prove that the Culture of Life will win in the end He rose from the dead, defeating death.
You understood only half the story Varg, no wonder your interpretation is flawed ......
To quote Bill Hicks: "Do you think when Jesus comes back he ever wants to see a cross? It's kind of like going up to Jackie Onassis with a rifle pendant on".
No,Ivanhoe-this is a quest that has no real "finish". The right wing fanatics,the fundamentalist loonies,the conspiracy crackpots will never stop their efforts to totally destroy the basic liberties that too many take for granted. A quasi-religious police state,with them(or their public puppets)controlling every aspect of our daily lives,down to the smallest details-that's their insane dream. They won't win,as Americans don't like being pushed around. But the cost we will all pay before they are finally beaten may be one can't afforsd.
The christians should be unshakable in there belief. But not in there practice as this is mans interpritation. The smybol of the cross to some is the suffering, witch is the cross with JESUS, the cross without JESUS is the symbol of the risen and living JESUS. Thou shall not 10 commands are unchangesble, plus the 11th given by JESUS. mans laws are at best an attempt to do the right thing. ARE changeable,(to coin a phrase ) gods law isnt mans law is. Hope this helps i to do cringe when i see tv evangalists. But im not a consevationist because of watching bamby but because of the arguement for.
Originally posted by sundown316is it your contention that Paul actually doctored the gospels to change the message? if so, is there evidence for this? i ask out of curiosity - i have no stake in believing either that jesus claimed to be the son of God or not...
Ivanhoe-Jesus' "vision" was purely political,and neither religious or spiritual.To restore the House of David to the throne of Israel,and drive out the hated Romans,that was his agenda. If you told Jesus,or any other Jew of that era, that they were the "Son of God",they probably would have stoned you to death for blasphemy. What passes for Jesus mess ...[text shortened]... ldren. As for myself,I never lost sight of his vision,because I never bought into it from day 1.
Originally posted by dfm65If you think about it one might believe that if anything the disciples would "tone down" the message. Why? Because they were persecuted and put to death for preaching their message. They must have believed what they were preaching. Makes me think! And I'm not going to preach for or against religion as it is a personal choice we all have to make.
is it your contention that Paul actually doctored the gospels to change the message? if so, is there evidence for this? i ask out of curiosity - i have no stake in believing either that jesus claimed to be the son of God or not...
Regards,
Charlie
dfm65-if you're really interested in this subject,Isuggest you read Holy Blood,Holy Grail and The Messianic Legacy,both by Baigent,Lincoln,and Lee. They detail the fight for control of the early Church between James,the brother of Jesus,and Paul. Paul "won" by default when James was executed. The books also explode a few of the other myths that have grown up around Jesus' life,message,and motivations.
Originally posted by dfm65
is it your contention that Paul actually doctored the gospels to change the message? if so, is there evidence for this? i ask out of curiosity - i have no stake in believing either that jesus claimed to be the son of God or not...
There are so many of those "conspiricy theories". They all claim to be logical, scientific and true and they all contradict eachother ...... 🙄
Originally posted by sundown316Bloodline of the Holy Grail by Laurence Gardner is a good one too.
dfm65-if you're really interested in this subject,Isuggest you read Holy Blood,Holy Grail and The Messianic Legacy,both by Baigent,Lincoln,and Lee. They detail the fight for control of the early Church between James,the brother of Jesus,and Paul. Paul "won" by default when James was executed. The books also explode a few of the other myths that have grown up around Jesus' life,message,and motivations.
He goes into quite a lot of detail about scrolls which were left out of the bible for one reason and another.
Originally posted by sundown316
No,Ivanhoe-this is a quest that has no real "finish". The right wing fanatics,the fundamentalist loonies,the conspiracy crackpots will never stop their efforts to totally destroy the basic liberties that too many take for granted. A quasi-religious police state,with them(or their public puppets)controlling every aspect of our daily lives,down to the sma ...[text shortened]... d around. But the cost we will all pay before they are finally beaten may be one can't afforsd.
Who do you mean when you use the term "fundamentalists" ? Are you referring to Christians, Jews or Muslims ? What groups do you mean ?