Originally posted by FreakyKBHOh ya! I saw that pages ago. sonhouse explained away the idea that the video gives the impression that from the moon's surface the earth would fill the moon's sky by saying it was because the camera was a million miles away with a zoom lense.
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And here:
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/dscovrepicmoontransitfull.gif
It's embarrassing, really: both in the length of time and depth of absurdity we've been swallowing this idiocy.
I'm techno-ignorant so I can't say, but I don't see how it makes much difference whether the camera was a million miles or a thousand miles away.
If, as sonhouse says, the moon is eight times smaller than the earth, then the earth should appear very large indeed from the surface of the moon.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHSo I looked at the 53 story of the transistor and I assume you have an issue with the part where radio signals were heard in Hawaii and Paris and they used a flat map. Whoppee do.
Top of page 82...
And here:
http://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/thumbnails/image/dscovrepicmoontransitfull.gif
It's embarrassing, really: both in the length of time and depth of absurdity we've been swallowing this idiocy.
I think they call that artistic license.
And the so-called animation you think it is, the proportions are correct Earth is that much bigger than the moon so suck it up and live with it.
YOU are the one with the problem not anyone else except your flatassbuddies who don't know their asss from a hole in the ground either.
It's really pathetic the ridiculous arguments they put up.
I really would like to see you find holes in the XM radio idea. A reflector dish tuned to the right frequency can prove the signals come from up in the sky, not sideways to a ground station, the same with GPS.
You are just swallowing whole hook line and sinker the flatasss mythology.
You are so brainwashed you are AFRAID to take any kind of science course for fear you might have to shake up your tiny world.
Originally posted by sonhouseYou shouldn't let it get to you. So what if the earth is flat? 😉
So I looked at the 53 story of the transistor and I assume you have an issue with the part where radio signals were heard in Hawaii and Paris and they used a flat map. Whoppee do.
I think they call that artistic license.
And the so-called animation you think it is, the proportions are correct Earth is that much bigger than the moon so suck it up a ...[text shortened]... e AFRAID to take any kind of science course for fear you might have to shake up your tiny world.
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Originally posted by josephwIt's not a so what issue. The real issue is the nutty people who THINK Earth is flat.
You shouldn't let it get to you. So what if the earth is flat? 😉
They are as nutty as a fruitcake and I don't believe for one minute they really think Earth is flat.
I think the whole thing is just another social club where you pretend to believe the dogma they put out and you all go out and shoot darts and drink beer laughing at the people who think THEY think are serious.
Freak is just out to rattle chains.
He is too limited mentally to come up with refutations for my arguments so he just ignores all of them and is a one trick, or two trick pony.
For instance, why don't you try to come up with an argument about how XM can work if the signals doesn't come from satellites?
I presume you know what XM radio is. If you don't, google it.
Flatassers have to deny ALL space activity by ANY nation that does it. Funny thing, how could literally hundreds of thousands of people involved in space activity in a dozen countries all be faking AND NOT ONE WHISTLEBLOWER to expose the scam.
That is impossible. SOMEONE would notice and scream at the top of their lungs.
For instance, the moon hoaxers, China and Russia would have LOVED to penetrate a NASA fraud 50 years ago showing the world NASA was faking it and Russia in particular since they were running the race to the moon which they failed. I bet if they were the first, there would never have been accused of fakery. They have these deals called radar which could easily track those kind of space craft like Apollo. THEY didn't say it was faked. ASSSSHOLE Americans wanting to make a buck on stupid books to convince stupid minds are the ones starting the moon hoax. Anything to make a buck. They were the first trolls of the space age, nothing more.
Originally posted by sonhouseWouldn't it be interesting if everything wasn't as it appears to be?
It's not a so what issue. The real issue is the nutty people who THINK Earth is flat.
They are as nutty as a fruitcake and I don't believe for one minute they really think Earth is flat.
I think the whole thing is just another social club where you pretend to believe the dogma they put out and you all go out and shoot darts and drink beer laughing at ...[text shortened]... doesn't come from satellites?
I presume you know what XM radio is. If you don't, google it.
I mean, then science as we understand it would be thrown on its head. Factors not observable would come into play. Like some strange twilight zone of reality we didn't think existed.
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Originally posted by josephwWhy not just accept the fact that things are what they say they are. Why do people have to see boogie men in every scientific development? It is a denigration of the hundreds of years of scientific advancement to deny the facts they have figured out.
Wouldn't it be interesting if everything wasn't as it appears to be?
I mean, then science as we understand it would be thrown on its head. Factors not observable would come into play. Like some strange twilight zone of reality we didn't think existed.
It is a definite anti-science trend and it is not doing ANYONE any good, it is bad for public relations and it's bad for science because young people who could become scientists might be lost to the propaganda of the bullshtye artists who make up the conspiracies.
The world needs all the help it can get and it CERTAINLY does not need all the crap being put up by conspiracy theories which are there to make a buck ONLY and no other goal except also to gain political support so they can make even MORE money. That is the bottom line of the conspiracy theoriests.
For instance, I could write a book extoling the virtues of making alligator scale tea and present all kinds of bogus crap supporting that kind of BS, where my real goal is to make money as fast as possible without much work.
That is EXACTLY what conspiracy theorists do.
Originally posted by josephwHis explanation does its best to avoid any reference to NASA's actual animation, as he realizes the math of it doesn't match the visual of it.
Oh ya! I saw that pages ago. sonhouse explained away the idea that the video gives the impression that from the moon's surface the earth would fill the moon's sky by saying it was because the camera was a million miles away with a zoom lense.
I'm techno-ignorant so I can't say, but I don't see how it makes much difference whether the camera was a million ...[text shortened]... ler than the earth, then the earth should appear very large indeed from the surface of the moon.
Any attempt at copping out by saying it's a million miles away and zoomed in is simply childish wishful thinking: the camera doesn't "zoom in" on the earth without also zooming in on the moon... if there is a camera involved at all, but that's another story.
Taking it at face value, the earth would literally be the sky of the moon in the image provided by NASA.
That doesn't even touch on the absurdity of bizarre cloud formations which don't move at all even over nearly five hours of shots.
Crazy stuff.
Originally posted by sonhouseSo nutty, the only argument you have against the claims is...
It's not a so what issue. The real issue is the nutty people who THINK Earth is flat.
They are as nutty as a fruitcake and I don't believe for one minute they really think Earth is flat.
I think the whole thing is just another social club where you pretend to believe the dogma they put out and you all go out and shoot darts and drink beer laughing at ...[text shortened]... e moon hoax. Anything to make a buck. They were the first trolls of the space age, nothing more.
the nuttiness of the people making the claims.
You've done squat in your presentation regarding any of the questions involved, stymied at every turn.
So when you're not attacking the person (which you nearly always are) you'll throw in other issues in attempt to divert the conversation onto something else.
That's the sign of a weak mind with a weak counter.
Originally posted by sonhouseWhat a surprise!
So I looked at the 53 story of the transistor and I assume you have an issue with the part where radio signals were heard in Hawaii and Paris and they used a flat map. Whoppee do.
I think they call that artistic license.
And the so-called animation you think it is, the proportions are correct Earth is that much bigger than the moon so suck it up a ...[text shortened]... e AFRAID to take any kind of science course for fear you might have to shake up your tiny world.
You've botched this analysis, too!
Think a little harder on this one, sonhouse.
Originally posted by sonhouseYou wouldn't know science if it hit you in the face, objectively, measurably and repeatedly.
Why not just accept the fact that things are what they say they are. Why do people have to see boogie men in every scientific development? It is a denigration of the hundreds of years of scientific advancement to deny the facts they have figured out.
It is a definite anti-science trend and it is not doing ANYONE any good, it is bad for public relations a ...[text shortened]... e money as fast as possible without much work.
That is EXACTLY what conspiracy theorists do.
If there any doubt which of us was afraid of the outcome of the question, I believe your conduct up to this point tells the story better than all other indicators.
I have said repeatedly that I may be wrong.
You have said emphatically you are right, that I am an idiot.
I have repeatedly demonstrated glaring, self-canceling issues with a globe model.
You have emphatically ignored the demonstrations.
I have offered any one of several 'outs' for the conclusions of the evidence presented.
You have consistently rushed off to other unrelated topics.
What are you afraid of, sonhouse?
Is the truth this painful for you?
Originally posted by FreakyKBHYou SAY 'I might be wrong' but you really mean EVERYONE else is wrong and we flatassers are right. Your understanding of science is abysmal, you don't know jack about optics, physics, chemistry, basic radio transmission and atmospherics but you act like you have 10 Phd's in every such subject where you can just say 'I have proved this over and over again' when in fact you prove nothing because you deliberately misunderstand basic science.
You wouldn't know [b]science if it hit you in the face, objectively, measurably and repeatedly.
If there any doubt which of us was afraid of the outcome of the question, I believe your conduct up to this point tells the story better than all other indicators.
I have said repeatedly that I may be wrong.
You have said emphatically you are right, tha ...[text shortened]... other unrelated topics.
What are you afraid of, sonhouse?
Is the truth this painful for you?[/b]
Like it is FLAT IMPOSSIBLE for there to be a flat planet because gravity will pull it together into some kind of compact arrangement that we see even in small comets ony a few miles wide, they NEVER become pancakes.
But YOU, in your infinite knowledge, totally ignore basic physics and gravity, just cow towing to your flatasss buddies who actually do your thinking for you, you just parrot their thoughts without independent verification, just assuming when you see a city too far away to see on a curved Earth, it HAS to be because Earth is flat.
That is just about as far from reality as you can get.
If there were cities on the moon, the horizon would hide EVERY visual from each other past the horizon, even if there was a trillion watt light aimed at the horizon the landscape in the way would hid it BECAUSE there is no atmosphere.
But of course in your infinite knowledge and of course possessing 10 Phd's you KNOW the atmosphere can never make mirages and we only see distance vistas because Earth is flat.
Just like the asssholes who conjecture that ancient Egyptians could not possibly have had the brains to engineer and build those pyramids, THEREFORE ALIENS EXIST and furthermore helped those poor stupid early Egyptians to build the pyramids, of course conveniently bypassing the concept of why such a super civilization would WANT to build such pyramids, saying, well MAYBE they used them as landing platforms for their UFO's. THEREFORE UFO'S are real.
That is exactly the kind of thinking that is getting you into real trouble with reality and will continue to do so till you actually take courses to understand basic optics, atmospheric refractions, basic physics, basic UHF radio transmissions from satellites and so forth.
You have to go along with your flatassness brain washing and continue to deny the existance of real space probes, satellites and so forth, making you the 21st century equivalent of luddites who won't use moderns tech but you take it to the extreme in a hypocritical sense that you will still use your GPS even while denying satellites are responsible for the signal, completely deliberately misunderstanding the very nature of satellite transmissions, 'they are all ground stations', another parroting of the flatasssers.
You don't think for yourself that is the bottom line, you look at some city across the water and just blow out all science and fall over backwards believing the flatasss bullshyte.
And you wonder why I call you an idiot.
Originally posted by sonhouseI've always thought of science as a very exacting and precise discipline. Knowledge based on facts. Indisputable facts. When science begins to define the material universe based on theory, such as in the case of evolution, I begin to question the soundness of science.
Why not just accept the fact that things are what they say they are. Why do people have to see boogie men in every scientific development? It is a denigration of the hundreds of years of scientific advancement to deny the facts they have figured out.
It is a definite anti-science trend and it is not doing ANYONE any good, it is bad for public relations a ...[text shortened]... e money as fast as possible without much work.
That is EXACTLY what conspiracy theorists do.
I think creation is rock solid. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that science has lost its moorings, and that our perceptions can be manipulated. Reality just doesn't seem to be what it used to be.
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Originally posted by josephwWell you thought wrong. Science is ANYTHING but exacting and precise PRECISELY because the universe is NOT precise and exacting. Ever hear of Quantum mechanics? At the fundamental bottom of it all is a region of NOTHING exact. That is one of the fundamental principles of science, at that level, you try to figure our where something is exactly and now you can't figure out how much energy it contains or if you want to find out how much energy a particle contains, the more exact you get with that measurement the harder it is to find it, it slides around in unpredictable ways.
I've always thought of science as a very exacting and precise discipline. Knowledge based on facts. Indisputable facts. When science begins to define the material universe based on theory, such as in the case of evolution, I begin to question the soundness of science.
I think creation is rock solid. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that science has lost i ...[text shortened]... and that our perceptions can be manipulated. Reality just doesn't seem to be what it used to be.
It has a name, the UNcertainty principle and it has been proven to be true in a thousand ways in the microscopic realm and now we see examples of this in the macro world also.
We live in an uncertain universe. That is just the way it is and there is no science EVER that can get around that.
For instance, you may have heard of LIGO, the gravitational observatory that recently got two sightings of black hole mergers. They recently got (not yet installed) an upgrade to the sensitivity that will double the range of the device.
It squeezes one parameter at the expense of another but they can trick the uncertainty principle a bit to squeeze out more sensitivity at the expense of other parameters to measure but they win out in the total sensitivity of the instrument.
It is that uncertainty that allows them to make one measurement more sensitive at the expense of another measurement but the one they want is the important one.
But it comes about playing games with uncertainty and it still is far from a precise science.
That's just the way things work and we have to live with it.
Mathematicians have been trying to pin down precise formulas for centuries and they they find out the fundamental nature of even math isn't precise either.
Here is a PDF paper of uncertainty in math. I would not be able to understand the whole thing and very few people here would but it gives you an idea into the mathematics of uncertainty as a science in itself.
https://www.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/CCAS/programs/fuzzy_math/docs/MOU.pdf
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Originally posted by sonhouseThank you very much my computer crashed! 😉
Well you thought wrong. Science is ANYTHING but exacting and precise PRECISELY because the universe is NOT precise and exacting. Ever hear of Quantum mechanics? At the fundamental bottom of it all is a region of NOTHING exact. That is one of the fundamental principles of science, at that level, you try to figure our where something is exactly and now you ca ...[text shortened]... ce in itself.
https://www.creighton.edu/fileadmin/user/CCAS/programs/fuzzy_math/docs/MOU.pdf
Well, I'm glad you straitened me out on that. Now I guess I will endeavor to go a little deeper knowing that what ever questions I may produce will be met with more uncertain answers.
If, in fact, science, math and even our history, as well as everything else we think we know, is uncertain, it seems then that life is more or less just a guessing game, a crapshoot if you will, where nothing can be known for certain.
If you say yes to that, then I say you're wrong. Absolutely and fundamentally wrong.
I have absolute assurance no matter how uncertain everything appears to be.
God is holding it all together, and He will raise me up in that day. 🙂
Originally posted by josephwThat's one thing you get from religion, keeps you going without worry. I just wish that was the only thing we get from religion. It would be nice to get that without the religious wars and such.
Thank you very much my computer crashed! 😉
Well, I'm glad you straitened me out on that. Now I guess I will endeavor to go a little deeper knowing that what ever questions I may produce will be met with more uncertain answers.
If, in fact, science, math and even our history, as well as everything else we think we know, is uncertain, it seems then that ...[text shortened]... thing appears to be.
God is holding it all together, and He will raise me up in that day. 🙂