Flat Earthers, explain the 'Analemma' of the sun:

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

Pictures taken over a one year period in the same location.

How can that happen with your flat Earth myth?

Originally posted by sonhouse
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

Pictures taken over a one year period in the same location.

How can that happen with your flat Earth myth?

Perfect. Kudos for thinking of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma



P.S. On the APoD site, the url you gave is always the current day's picture. So to come back to this picture on another day, you have to give the url as such:

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap160729.html

where 160729 is the date -- year 16, month 07, day 29

In this way you can find the picture for any day of the year and cycle through them.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Perfect. Kudos for thinking of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analemma



P.S. On the APoD site, the url you gave is always the current day's picture. So to come back to this picture on another day, you have to give the url as such:

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap160729.html

where 160729 is the date -- year 16, month 07, day 29

In this way you can find the picture for any day of the year and cycle through them.

Yeah, I knew that but forgot about archives. That link only works for one day. Thanks for fixing that.

Did you know Isaac newton did work in optics that proved the impossibility of the flat Earth?

He did work on the density of the atmosphere and showed that due to the fact air is more dense close to the ground and less dense at altitude, when we have a relatively close horizon like we do now, the sun will set (and rise) as a sphere more or less. But with say a horizon 10,000 miles away, 16,000 km or so, the densities add up to make a very distorted image of a setting sun, flattened more like a pillow or saugage. I'll find the link and post it here later. It is an effect that cannot be rationalized by the most zealous flatasser.

http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~aty/explain/atmos_refr/models/flat.html

From that page:

Flat-Earth sunsets

flat-Earth sunset The exact formula for refraction on a flat Earth allows one to draw the shape of the setting Sun that would be observed in this situation. Here it is, at the right:
The Sun would appear to set on a surface about 1.6° above the astronomical horizon. The drawing shows the Sun's shape at the moment when its lower limb touches this false apparent horizon; the full width of the Sun's disk is shown. Everything between the false horizon and the astronomical horizon would be filled with a gigantic superior mirage of the (flat) Earth's surface.

Qualitatively, this highly flattened sunset image resembles what's seen by an observer inside a duct; see the second image in the simulation showing a wide blank strip. But quantitatively, the negative dip here is an order of magnitude larger than in that case, which is already very unusual. And of course there is no dip at all for the sea horizon in the flat-Earth model, where the sea horizon would coincide with the astronomical horizon.

Although the details of the mirages in this huge blank strip would depend on the density structure of the flat atmosphere, Newton's proof mentioned above guarantees that all sunsets in the flat-Earth model must have exactly this bizarre appearance. In particular, the enormous elevation of the false horizon depends only on the refractive index of air at the observer — a quantity known to many decimal places from laboratory measurements.

The fact that no real sunset on Earth ever has these characteristics can be taken as observational evidence that the Earth is round, not flat.



Copyright © 2003 – 2008 Andrew T. Young

BTW, wife still in hospital, I spent about 4 nights there in a guest room including last night but still have to go to work. She finally got the tube out of her nose pulling bile from her stomach which lowered her pain level she said, by 75%. That was awful. We still have no results from biopsy yet.

Originally posted by sonhouse
How can that happen with your flat Earth myth?

Well, not being a flatasser I can't explain how that can happen, but if I were a scientist I could.

If I picture it in my mind I can see how that the earth is spinning, and each day the sun would be in a different position relative to the tilt of the earth, analemma, as it rotates around the sun. Did it get that right?

Originally posted by josephw
Well, not being a flatasser I can't explain how that can happen, but if I were a scientist I could.

If I picture it in my mind I can see how that the earth is spinning, and each day the sun would be in a different position relative to the tilt of the earth, analemma, as it rotates around the sun. Did it get that right?

Not only is it due to the axial tilt of the earth, but also the eccentricity of its orbit, meaning more of an ellipse than a circle.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Yeah, I knew that but forgot about archives. That link only works for one day. Thanks for fixing that.

Did you know Isaac newton did work in optics that proved the impossibility of the flat Earth?

He did work on the density of the atmosphere and showed that due to the fact air is more dense close to the ground and less dense at altitude, when we have ...[text shortened]... wered her pain level she said, by 75%. That was awful. We still have no results from biopsy yet.

Is that what gives the sunsets observed over the ocean their distinctive shape?
Fascinating.



(BTW) I'm glad to hear the tube is out. That can be extremely uncomfortable at best and painful at worst. I've sat up with sick kids in hospital enough to understand. Things get better when you can finally sleep through the night. Keeping fingers crossed.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Is that what gives the sunsets observed over the ocean their distinctive shape?
Fascinating.



(BTW) I'm glad to hear the tube is out. That can be extremely uncomfortable at best and painful at worst. I've sat up with sick kids in hospital enough to understand. Things get better when you can finally sleep through the night. Keeping fingers crossed.

There are effects that are rare like the 'green spot' of the sun where a little green blob appears right at the top of the sun during a critical phase of sunset and comes and goes fast. It all depends on the vagarities of the atmosphere.

But a long horizon, thousand miles or so, the sun would set looking like a pillow not a sphere. But of course FE'ers would just deny deny deny, say it's BS.

About the hospital, one annoying thing going on, the doc said biopsy would be analysed in 48 hours. Now it is one week and counting and no biopsy report. My daughter Danielle talked to the nurse who basically hemmed and hawed about the delay. My daughter was EMT for a long time and now is involved in hospital reports, getting those details to the right people so she knows how long such things take normally, which is definitely not a whole week.

So, one day at a time.

Originally posted by sonhouse
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

Pictures taken over a one year period in the same location.

How can that happen with your flat Earth myth?

Uhhh, how can it not happen?
The earth is flat, and it happens, so it must not be impossible.

Fixed!

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Uhhh, how can it not happen?
The earth is flat, and it happens, so it must not be impossible.

Fixed!

So you got nothin'. Noted.

Originally posted by Suzianne
So you got nothin'. Noted.

That is his MO.

Since Earth IS flat, the greatest scientist humanity ever knew HAS to be wrong......

Originally posted by sonhouse
About the hospital, one annoying thing going on, the doc said biopsy would be analysed in 48 hours. Now it is one week and counting and no biopsy report. My daughter Danielle talked to the nurse who basically hemmed and hawed about the delay. My daughter was EMT for a long time and now is involved in hospital reports, getting those details to the right peop ...[text shortened]... long such things take normally, which is definitely not a whole week.

So, one day at a time.

But it is a huge bureaucracy, the entire healthcare system. Perhaps it got funneled 'somewhere else' by mistake. All it takes is one person having a bad day and not caring, to mess things up for a lot of people. Something gets mis-filed, or a test never gets run, causing someone to have to re-order the test. It's happened to me, and I'm just diabetic, a fairly common problem. Every time I go to the pharmacy for more insulin, I never know if someone somewhere in the chain screwed something up. Luckily, they know me by now and they understand my problem and a few times, I've had to get my insulin 'by approval' of the head pharmacist and then make up the difference once my paperwork gets sorted. My motto has become "It's always something." I don't ask for trouble, but it sometimes comes of its own accord. C'est la vie.

Of course, it is more difficult watching the same thing happen to a loved one in a more serious situation, too.

Originally posted by sonhouse
That is his MO.

Since Earth IS flat, the greatest scientist humanity ever knew HAS to be wrong......

I love it when one interaction serves to give one some perspective on another interaction.

This example deals with facts. Empirical facts. I can see how someone whose entire career is based on these kinds of facts can have a problem with religion, for example.

And a little less so, vice versa sometimes.

Originally posted by Suzianne
So you got nothin'. Noted.

"Nothin'"?
Did you miss the irony?
I simply used the exactly same structured argument as was employed for your response to the question of the alleged terrorists' ability to fly commercial airplanes.
According to you, since they were flying the planes, they obviously had the ability to do so!
Ain't no logic gunna undo that lock!
🙄

Originally posted by sonhouse
Yeah, I knew that but forgot about archives. That link only works for one day. Thanks for fixing that.

Did you know Isaac newton did work in optics that proved the impossibility of the flat Earth?

He did work on the density of the atmosphere and showed that due to the fact air is more dense close to the ground and less dense at altitude, when we have ...[text shortened]... wered her pain level she said, by 75%. That was awful. We still have no results from biopsy yet.

For a person with a mind for numbers and theoretical thinking you sure have a hard time with some fairly basic concepts.
You trumpet Newton as the greatest scientist ever, but forget this is the same one who proposed gravitational force.
You know: that thing that can't be rationally explained or even demonstrated here on earth.
That's not science.

Moreover, you cite an example using an arbitrary distance without reference to anything except an arbitrary distance.
Why 10,000 miles?
To what is that 10,000 miles referring?
But to then base all of the formulas on that arbitrary distance simply to show that the arbitrary distance makes such a thing impossible?
Again, that's not science.
That's scienc-y, but it's not science.
It's garbage in, garbage out.
Faulty premises--- no matter how mathematically sound our formulas are worked and then applied--- will ALWAYS result in faulty conclusions.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
"Nothin'"?
Did you miss the irony?
I simply used the exactly same structured argument as was employed for your response to the question of the alleged terrorists' ability to fly commercial airplanes.
According to you, since they were flying the planes, they obviously had the ability to do so!
Ain't no logic gunna undo that lock!
🙄

Not the same thing at all.

One question involves astronomical facts. The other deals with human abilities. Not the same thing at all.