The number of trophies cannot be the overriding factor. I'd factor the Euro Championships/Champions League as an important competition too...to my mind Ronaldo wasn't a strong factor in the Barca semi final, nice goal against Chelsea...but didn't match expectations when it mattered in the Euros...(I wanted the 'best player' to step up)
EDIT: On reflection, Ronaldo and Torres are exchanged only by quantity of trophies.
1. Messi
The best in the world, unfortunate and unlucky with injuries last year, and in a team that wasn't cohesive or well-managed. Shining star of football, with a humble manner to boot.
2. C. Ronaldo
Scored a lot of great goals besides those penalties though. Plays in one of the best and most expensively assembled squad (his team had/has an awesome defense) for many a mile, with a great manager. Great against average, average against greats. Unlike Messi.
3. Torres
Top player in his club (by a country mile) (Torres>>>>Stevie H Gerrard>Mascherano), one of the most frighteningly effective player I've seen. Awesome when fit, and great in the Euros.
(Further to 'inspiring' a team to success)
I use a similar basis to that to argue that Gerd Muller should be on ANY "pre-2000" team sheet. (His role is sadly, really truly lamentably redundant in the modern era) The guy managed to win absolutely every major trophy, and got on the scoresheet (usually with a winner) in every final!
Originally posted by Bobson 94I definately agree with you on number (1) and (2).
The number of trophies cannot be the overriding factor. I'd factor the Euro Championships/Champions League as an important competition too...to my mind Ronaldo wasn't a strong factor in the Barca semi final, nice goal against Chelsea...but didn't match expectations when it mattered in the Euros...(I wanted the 'best player' to step up)
EDIT: On refl ...[text shortened]... every major trophy, and got on the scoresheet (usually with a winner) in every final!
Messi is awesome, every time i've seen him play he looks like a world beater and he really makes those players around him play better.
There is something special about the kid and how old is he 19 or 20, pheww.
Ronaldo was the best player but his form dipped dramatically since April 2008 and like you say he has an awsome defense, great squad around him and the manager loves him.
As for (3), i'd place Gerrard ahead of Torres.
Torres only scored 3 away goals last season in the league (i think) but I'm not going to to argue the merits of Liverpool players.
On a related thread, Trev33 placing Keane as his 3rd choice, well I thought he was serious.
I didn't answer because anyone who thinks a fairly good player is the 3rd best in the world would take a lot of energy to debate against. So i just assumed he'd been on the guinness or something.
Originally posted by Rooney Once a Blue1. Cristiano Ronaldo: 935
Ronaldo was the best player but his form dipped dramatically since April 2008
2. Lionel Messi: 678
3. Fernando Torres: 203
4. Kaka: 183
5. Xavi: 155
This is what the national coaches and captains think.
Re: loss of form since April 08...
01/04/08Roma0 - 2Manchester UnitedCL Qtr Final
Ronaldo 1
06/04/08Middlesbrough2- 2Manchester UnitedPremier League
Ronaldo 1
09/04/08Manchester United1- 0RomaCL Qtr Final
13/04/08Manchester United2- 1ArsenalPremier League
Ronaldo 1
19/04/08Blackburn1- 1Manchester UnitedPremier League
23/04/08Barcelona0- 0Manchester UnitedCL Semi-Final (1st Leg)
26/04/08Chelsea2- 1Manchester UnitedPremier League
29/04/08Manchester United1- 0BarcelonaCL Semi-Final (2nd Leg)
03/05/08Manchester United4- 1West HamPremier League
Ronaldo 2
11/05/08Wigan0- 2Manchester UnitedPremier League
Ronaldo 1
21/05/08Chelsea1- 1Manchester UnitedCL Final
Ronaldo 1
7 goals in 11 big games at the end of the season. Terrible loss of form.
I believe that when the people vote for this, they take into account what each player has inspired their team to win, and so take into account the entire 07/08 season + international comps in the summer.
There's no way Ronaldo is playing like the best player in the world at the moment. I honestly think his game is suffering due to him trying to change his game to be more of a team player. He's trying to play team mates in this season, whereas last season he would have taken on the shot. I don't think his strong point is playing delicate little balls into people. With some perseverence, he may increase his assist count AND regain his unbelieveable goalscoring form.
D
Originally posted by RagnorakThe stats you point out are still very impressive but he also missed a penalty against Barcelona and a penalty shootout in the CL final.
1. Cristiano Ronaldo: 935
2. Lionel Messi: 678
3. Fernando Torres: 203
4. Kaka: 183
5. Xavi: 155
This is what the national coaches and captains think.
Re: loss of form since April 08...
01/04/08Roma0 - 2Manchester UnitedCL Qtr Final
Ronaldo 1
06/04/08Middlesbrough2- 2Manchester UnitedPremier League
Ronaldo 1
09/04/08Man ...[text shortened]... verence, he may increase his assist count AND regain his unbelieveable goalscoring form.
D
We were a little lucky to get away with those misses.
He scored in the CL final but played terrible.
In quite a few of the games you point out, he scored in them but did not play well.
I don't like being critical of him though because he did so much for United.
Since April though there has been a steady drop of form from Ronaldo.
He doesn't run with the ball anymore.
He did though against WBA so hopefully thats a good sign.
You may be right and he's trying to play more as a team player.
In August, September, October, November and December Ronaldo hasn't been in the top 50 players in the world.
So I rate Messi as better then him for 2008.
The player is a level above world class.
Originally posted by Angry BoyI'm critical of Manchester United players when they don't appear to be playing with 100% effort (this doesn't happen often) but Ronaldo hasn't appeared to me to play with 100% effort this season so far, so I'll call him out.
But you are often critical of him. I suspect that this is because he's put your idol Rooney somewhat in the shade.
Overall last season Ronaldo overshadowed Rooney by quite a bit so great, we have fantastic Rooney and world beater Ronaldo.
Note last season = August 2007 to May 2008.
Ronaldo is showing signs in recent games that he is focused again, so I'll praise him again if he shows commitment.
If he plays for himself and not United I won't praise him.
Rooney always plays for Manchester United, he's a true red, a red for life. 😏
Originally posted by Rooney Once a BlueThis criticising of Ronaldo / bigging up Rooney (by you) started well before the end of last season.
I'm critical of Manchester United players when they don't appear to be playing with 100% effort (this doesn't happen often) but Ronaldo hasn't appeared to me to play with 100% effort this season so far, so I'll call him out.
Overall last season Ronaldo overshadowed Rooney by quite a bit so great, we have fantastic Rooney and world beater Ronald ...[text shortened]... e him.
Rooney always plays for Manchester United, he's a true red, a red for life. 😏