13 Jan 04
Its been anounced that there will be an inquiry into how Harold Shipman managed to kill himself in his prison cell. Why? Why waste more money finding out if staff failed and how he took his own life, hes gone, good ridence. Im surprised it took so long. Too much money in Britain is wasted pandering and looking after this countries scum. So the general question is, what is your view on your countries Serial killers and the way your government deals with them?
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13 Jan 04
Originally posted by 442We don't have Capital punishment here because we are too soft.
Its been anounced that there will be an inquiry into how Harold Shipman managed to kill himself in his prison cell. Why? Why waste more money finding out if staff failed and how he took his own life, hes gone, good ridence. Im surprised it took so long. Too much money in Britain is wasted pandering and looking after this countries scum. So the general question i ...[text shortened]... is your view on your countries Serial killers and the way your government deals with them?
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We do turn a blind eye if we think they can do it themselves.
13 Jan 04
Originally posted by missleadEven if our Government wanted Capital punishment (which they dont), we are prevented from reintroducing it due to our EU membership. Its not Britain thats soft, its the EU constitution, something we signed up to a long time ago!
We don't have Capital punishment here because we are too soft.
We do turn a blind eye if we think they can do it themselves.
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13 Jan 04
Originally posted by 442Do you support capital punishment? If so, what justification do you have for it?
Even if our Government wanted Capital punishment (which they dont), we are prevented from reintroducing it due to our EU membership. Its not Britain thats soft, its the EU constitution, something we signed up to a long time ago!
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13 Jan 04
Originally posted by royalchickenIn certain cases, I do believe in the use of Capital Punishment. There is something fundamentally wrong when someone commits cold blooded murder and gets released 15 years later for good bahavour.
Do you support capital punishment? If so, what justification do you have for it?
Take last nights "Wall of Silence" on ITV, a dramatisation of a real life crime, a gang of around 8 "youths" beat and kicked to death a young lad whos only crime was to be drunk and in the wrong place at the wrong time. One even went back to make sure he was dead by jumping on his skull. 6 were prosecuted, 1 of which disappeared and has never been traced, of the other 5, 3 were convicted and the judge recommended they serve 12 years, despite being given a "life" sentence. At the very least, this country could take a leaf out of America's book and make a life sentence mean life.....
13 Jan 04
Originally posted by 442i watched 'wall of silence' and it really sickened me. what really got my back up was how these murderers families saw them as heroes!! It's obvious to see why these kids turned out the way they did. they want to lock up their parents. i don't believe in capital punishment, it just doesn't work. how many cases have we seen of people being found innocent 20yrs later.
In certain cases, I do believe in the use of Capital Punishment. There is something fundamentally wrong when someone commits cold blooded murder and gets released 15 years later for good bahavour.
Take last nights "Wall of Silence" on ITV, a dramatisation of a real life crime, a gang of around 8 "youths" beat and kicked to death a young lad whos only crim ...[text shortened]... t, this country could take a leaf out of America's book and make a life sentence mean life.....
13 Jan 04
Originally posted by wucky3In both case they did those things."Got the wrong Guy worry" is off menu.They did it.Civalisation has swung too far into the rights of the offender.The victims have rights too.
i watched 'wall of silence' and it really sickened me. what really got my back up was how these murderers families saw them as heroes!! It's obvious to see why these kids turned out the way they did. they want to lock up their parents. i don't believe in capital punishment, it just doesn't work. how many cases have we seen of people being found innocent 20yrs later.
14 Jan 04
Originally posted by 442Relatives of Shipman's victims have said they've felt cheated by his death, because now they'll never learn the truth and 'he's taken the easy way out'. Conversely of course, when murderers are sentenced to life inprisonment, people often call for capital punishment. That's the problem with crimes like murder: no punishment can ever be enough.
Its been anounced that there will be an inquiry into how Harold Shipman managed to kill himself in his prison cell. Why? Why waste more money finding out if staff failed and how he took his own life, hes gone, good ridence. Im surprised it took so long. Too much money in Britain is wasted pandering and looking after this countries scum. So the general question i ...[text shortened]... is your view on your countries Serial killers and the way your government deals with them?
ðŸ˜
Personally though, I believe that while plenty of people may forfeit their right to life, no one has the right to take life, and for that reason capital punishment is wrong.
Rich.
14 Jan 04
Originally posted by missleadCould you explain what you mean by "victims have rights too"? However much you might wish otherwise, criminals are not given sentences for the victims' benefit; if they were, the victim/victim's relatives would have some direct say in the matter (eg they might show mercy on the perpetrator, so he would get less than the maximum sentence). In fact, the only parties in a criminal case in England & Wales are the Crown (prosecution), the defendant, the judge/magistrates and possibly a jury; the victim has no special legal 'rights' whatsoever, as far as the trial and sentencing are concerned.
In both case they did those things."Got the wrong Guy worry" is off menu.They did it.Civalisation has swung too far into the rights of the offender.The victims have rights too.
Also, confessions may be a result of coercion, deceit, or the defendant not understanding what they are confessing to (this may include defendants who are mentally handicapped - certainly there have been some dubious cases like this in the States). I agree that it's extremely unlikely that Huntley and Shipman were innocent (pretty much impossible in the latter case), but you can't use confession as a genereal principle. However, if you are calling for special cases to be made of these people, it does nothing except serve the bloodlust of the tabloid press and some of their readership, while murderers who haven't got the attention of the media get the comparatively mild punishment of a life sentence.
14 Jan 04
Originally posted by richhoeyIf Person A forfeits their right to life, but no-one has the right to take it from them, what does that mean? If Person A is killed by accident or (otherwise) criminal negligence, their killer cannot be charged with manslaughter?
Personally though, I believe that while plenty of people may forfeit their right to life, no one has the right to take life, and for that reason capital punishment is wrong.
Rich.
You have to be careful with this 'right' word; it doesn't work too well if you use it passively (ie 'right to life' implies 'right not to be killed' - but who is supposed to uphold this?) or negatively (ie if someone doesn't have a right to do something, does that mean they are not guaranteed to be able to it, or that it is forbidden to them?). I find it easier to think in terms what you are allowed to do and what you are not allowed to do.
14 Jan 04
Originally posted by AcolyteI agree If you hang them all you will get the right(wrong) guy.
Could you explain what you mean by "victims have rights too"? However much you might wish otherwise, criminals are not given sentences for the victims' benefit; if they were, the victim/victim's relatives would have some direct say in the matter (eg they might show mercy on the perpetrator, so he would get less than the maximum sentence). In fact, the ...[text shortened]... aven't got the attention of the media get the comparatively mild punishment of a life sentence.
It is about balance.You agreed that Shitman did it You agree too that Huntley wont hunt young girls for the rest of his life.But here is the big roll.I could press that button if someone had to.You are saying you can't? That is fair.
14 Jan 04
Originally posted by wucky3He would never have said because he was an arrogant cynical killer of families.If you think he might have you then, you judge him through your rose-tinted spectacles.You want to find some sort of good in him.The goodness comes from you.You are the good person.He is/was evil to the core.He put himself in GODS hands now.
well shipman saved you the trouble because he took his own life...and have you taken into consideration the 'victims' relations argument that now he is dead they will never know why he did it. most of them wanted him alive in the hope that one day he could answer their questions.
14 Jan 04
Originally posted by missleadIt isn't about fairness though. Criminals (in the USA, and I think in Britain as well, and in most countries with some kind of 'rule of law' format) aren't punished for revenge, or consistency, or to support their victims. Criminals are punished because the law officially says they are not allowed to do the thing which they did. So the idea that 'We should kill him because he killed other people and that is fair' may or may not be correct, but it is not the point of a legal system. The point of a legal system is to say 'Those of us with power decided that it is best for the community if, under most circumstances, people do not kill one another. Since this fellow killed someone, we need to lend weight to our words by punishing him, and we need to either convince him not to do it again, or permanently take him out of the public.'
I agree If you hang them all you will get the right(wrong) guy.
It is about balance.You agreed that Shitman did it You agree too that Huntley wont hunt young girls for the rest of his life.But here is the big roll.I could press that button if someone had to.You are saying you can't? That is fair.
I don't know if capital punishment is justifiable, but it is not justifiable by the claim that it supports the victim.